Chip 101
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From: Selden NY
Chip 101
I know exactly what they do, and why we have them, I've been through 4 programs I didn't care for, and I currently have three I'm using now. So I believe in Chips myself.
"BUT"
Please give me a basic answer on exactly what makes it differant from a 2lb to a 4lb to a 6lb program ??? What exact changes are made for these differant pulleys. Do they add more timing, do they add more gas, more air, more what ? I'm not talking about ms between shifting, or rev limiters, or shift points, or tranny pressure, or torque reduction, etc... none of that is a necessity because of our pulleys. What do they change if I go from a 2lb pulley to a 6lb pulley. (just an example) Logic would tell me the more boost, the more air. The longer the WOT, the more fuel needed. This is of course, the secret balance that decides if and when we blow a motor, CORRECT ???
So since we know our stock computer can correct and adjust proper A/F up to 2lbs of added pulley, DOES A CHIP OVER RIDE THAT FEATURE when we run 4lb's or 6 ? And why exactly CAN'T our computer adjust for say a 4lb pulley.
Why not have a chip burned for just timing, rev limiter, ms between shifting, torque reduction, etc, and not touch the A/F and let the stock computer adjust and regulate the A/F of our added 4lb pulley. A colder plug would take care of the extra heat in the cylinder. "OR" is the answer, that the computer AND THE CHIP are BOTH adjusting timing and A/F at WOT ???? Cause if it is, that seems like a problem waiting to happen, and a constant tug of war ??? I assume the answer is yes they both adjust, because in the colder months the computer adds timing and some have pinging problems CORRECT ??? So if thats the case why not just set the Chip Rich and Safe, and let the computer lean it out a little. I got to assume it won't allow it to run too rich and foul out ??? or would it ? OR DOES THE CHIP OVERIDE THE COMPUTERS ABILITY TO DO THAT ??
"BUT"
Please give me a basic answer on exactly what makes it differant from a 2lb to a 4lb to a 6lb program ??? What exact changes are made for these differant pulleys. Do they add more timing, do they add more gas, more air, more what ? I'm not talking about ms between shifting, or rev limiters, or shift points, or tranny pressure, or torque reduction, etc... none of that is a necessity because of our pulleys. What do they change if I go from a 2lb pulley to a 6lb pulley. (just an example) Logic would tell me the more boost, the more air. The longer the WOT, the more fuel needed. This is of course, the secret balance that decides if and when we blow a motor, CORRECT ???
So since we know our stock computer can correct and adjust proper A/F up to 2lbs of added pulley, DOES A CHIP OVER RIDE THAT FEATURE when we run 4lb's or 6 ? And why exactly CAN'T our computer adjust for say a 4lb pulley.
Why not have a chip burned for just timing, rev limiter, ms between shifting, torque reduction, etc, and not touch the A/F and let the stock computer adjust and regulate the A/F of our added 4lb pulley. A colder plug would take care of the extra heat in the cylinder. "OR" is the answer, that the computer AND THE CHIP are BOTH adjusting timing and A/F at WOT ???? Cause if it is, that seems like a problem waiting to happen, and a constant tug of war ??? I assume the answer is yes they both adjust, because in the colder months the computer adds timing and some have pinging problems CORRECT ??? So if thats the case why not just set the Chip Rich and Safe, and let the computer lean it out a little. I got to assume it won't allow it to run too rich and foul out ??? or would it ? OR DOES THE CHIP OVERIDE THE COMPUTERS ABILITY TO DO THAT ??
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From: Palm Coast, FL
The stock computer does not "correct" for a 2lb pulley. The factoery calibrtion is just rich enough that you can get away with a 2lb pulley, without needing to alter air/fuel. Over a 2lb pulley, the computer must be recalibrated to alter timing and fuel, to account for the extra boost.
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From: Ottawa, Canada
Is it true that running with a 4 or 6 psi pulley with no chip is safe? I read that a chip leans out the car to make some more power and running with no chip is ok and even safer due to running richer. I find this hard to belive and I have my chip out now for a re-burn and do not plan on going over 1/4 throttle while the chip is out.
Thanks, Jason
Thanks, Jason
Originally posted by LightningTuner
The stock computer does not "correct" for a 2lb pulley. The factoery calibrtion is just rich enough that you can get away with a 2lb pulley, without needing to alter air/fuel. Over a 2lb pulley, the computer must be recalibrated to alter timing and fuel, to account for the extra boost.
The stock computer does not "correct" for a 2lb pulley. The factoery calibrtion is just rich enough that you can get away with a 2lb pulley, without needing to alter air/fuel. Over a 2lb pulley, the computer must be recalibrated to alter timing and fuel, to account for the extra boost.
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From: Palm Coast, FL
Well, opinions differ from person to person, and there are people who do just pretty much anything you can think of, but I doubt you'll hear a reputable company or tuner ever tell you it's safe to run a 4 or 6 lb pulley with no chip 
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From: Ottawa, Canada
Thanks for the info! Thats what I thought. I will just baby it till my chip gets back and when it does I get to call you to order my air intake 
Originally posted by LightningTuner
Well, opinions differ from person to person, and there are people who do just pretty much anything you can think of, but I doubt you'll hear a reputable company or tuner ever tell you it's safe to run a 4 or 6 lb pulley with no chip .
Well, opinions differ from person to person, and there are people who do just pretty much anything you can think of, but I doubt you'll hear a reputable company or tuner ever tell you it's safe to run a 4 or 6 lb pulley with no chip
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From: Selden NY
We've been told the computer always try's to maintain the perfect A/F of 14 WHEN STOCK, even know if it never goes that high, thats what it TRYS TO ACHEIVE. So then when we add Pulley, AKA MORE AIR, "AKA LEANER" a chip is used to actually give it MORE GAS not more air, RIGHT ? "OR" another way of looking at it is, the computer BY DEFAULT will allow it to run the leanest it can "SAFELY", so if we add more Pulley WE MUST add more richness, that would explain why we cant use Pulleys without Chips, and why we need colder plugs. THAT MAKES SENSE. We also know lean at low RPM is ok, it's WOT that takes it toll on the Motor and Rods "IF IT'S TOO LEAN"
So this tells me I want to be richer, and allow the computer to lean it out a little by itself, CORRECT. Of course here's where that Sparg plug choice comes into play, too cold and it can foul, too hot and it can burn. And what Sal's saying is, the computer cant handle adjusting the extra air of a 6lb pulley so we do it with plugs and A/F adjustments.
So if I add my 2lb upper back on, it will run leaner and I will NEED MORE RICHNESS. And by staying at WOT for long periods of time with Pulleys it will get leaner and leaner until it's too lean UNLESS we have the proper A/F and cool enough plugs for OUR TUNE.
In a weird way, this all makes sense, and some how helped me.
The magic question is, where's the performance gain ?
In the advanced timing, or the leaner tune ???
So this tells me I want to be richer, and allow the computer to lean it out a little by itself, CORRECT. Of course here's where that Sparg plug choice comes into play, too cold and it can foul, too hot and it can burn. And what Sal's saying is, the computer cant handle adjusting the extra air of a 6lb pulley so we do it with plugs and A/F adjustments.
So if I add my 2lb upper back on, it will run leaner and I will NEED MORE RICHNESS. And by staying at WOT for long periods of time with Pulleys it will get leaner and leaner until it's too lean UNLESS we have the proper A/F and cool enough plugs for OUR TUNE.
In a weird way, this all makes sense, and some how helped me.
The magic question is, where's the performance gain ?
In the advanced timing, or the leaner tune ???
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From: Albuquerque, NM
Originally posted by NTIMD8
Is it true that running with a 4 or 6 psi pulley with no chip is safe? I read that a chip leans out the car to make some more power and running with no chip is ok and even safer due to running richer. I find this hard to belive and I have my chip out now for a re-burn and do not plan on going over 1/4 throttle while the chip is out.
Thanks, Jason
Is it true that running with a 4 or 6 psi pulley with no chip is safe? I read that a chip leans out the car to make some more power and running with no chip is ok and even safer due to running richer. I find this hard to belive and I have my chip out now for a re-burn and do not plan on going over 1/4 throttle while the chip is out.
Thanks, Jason
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From: Palm Coast, FL
Rob, you seriously need to stop listening to whomever you get your technical info from, because it's hardly ever right.
The computer does not always try to run the motor at stoich, which technically is 14.67:1. The computer runs the truck at what it is programmed to run at, in several fuel tables. When it's in closed loop (idle, part throttle cruise), it monitors the O2 sensors, and uses them to determine how the motor is running. It then looks at the fuel tables for the given load, rpm, mph, ect. at that point, and adjusts the fuel trims accordingly. When you are idle, and low load cruise, is where you will see a/f about 14.6. When the truck is in open loop (cold start, WOT), it does not monitor the O2s, it works off of what's programmed in the tables, on top of the adaptive long fuel trims.
The computer does not always try to run the motor at stoich, which technically is 14.67:1. The computer runs the truck at what it is programmed to run at, in several fuel tables. When it's in closed loop (idle, part throttle cruise), it monitors the O2 sensors, and uses them to determine how the motor is running. It then looks at the fuel tables for the given load, rpm, mph, ect. at that point, and adjusts the fuel trims accordingly. When you are idle, and low load cruise, is where you will see a/f about 14.6. When the truck is in open loop (cold start, WOT), it does not monitor the O2s, it works off of what's programmed in the tables, on top of the adaptive long fuel trims.
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From: The Republic of Texas
The computer runs the truck at what it is programmed to run at, in several fuel tables. When it's in closed loop (idle, part throttle cruise), it monitors the O2 sensors, and uses them to determine how the motor is running.
Along the lines of what you said above the 02 sensors seem really important to the tune of our trucks. When would you suggest replacing the 02 sensors? I have 60K on the stockers now. Am I due?
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Originally posted by LightningTuner
Rob, you seriously need to stop listening to whomever you get your technical info from, because it's hardly ever right.
Rob, you seriously need to stop listening to whomever you get your technical info from, because it's hardly ever right.
http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread...ich#post196107
I want to emphasize that what I am about to say might cause some people to rethink what they have been told, but if you run 14:1 A/F ratio, that is what is called perfect stoich, which is what your computer tries to do all the time to acheive the best performance and emissions, anything below that is rich, anything above that is lean, hence the O2 sensor going from rich to lean and back again, the computer needs to see that change to constantly adjust the A/F to right around 14:1, even in forced induction vehicles. I wouldnt tune to 14, but that is what the computer is constantly trying to acheive.
13 is a very safe Race program. (repeat, RACE Program)
If you are running close to 11, you are missing out on some serious power.
Black 2000's street program is what he runs daily and that was logged at 12.
I get my Lightnings dynoed and I tune them at a Import shop that has an owner that really knows alot more about tuning than I do, he agrees with me about the A/F's. These import guys are very very smart, they do a hell of alot more tuning than anyone I have ever met before and they know what works. They have to because they are getting more and more Hp and Tq out of smaller engines everyday. I have three Lightnings in the 400/500 club that only run 3lbs of boost over stock, my own was 420/510. Something must be right in the tune huh???
There is alot more to come, stay "tuned" JJ@ JJ'sSVT
13 is a very safe Race program. (repeat, RACE Program)
If you are running close to 11, you are missing out on some serious power.
Black 2000's street program is what he runs daily and that was logged at 12.
I get my Lightnings dynoed and I tune them at a Import shop that has an owner that really knows alot more about tuning than I do, he agrees with me about the A/F's. These import guys are very very smart, they do a hell of alot more tuning than anyone I have ever met before and they know what works. They have to because they are getting more and more Hp and Tq out of smaller engines everyday. I have three Lightnings in the 400/500 club that only run 3lbs of boost over stock, my own was 420/510. Something must be right in the tune huh???
There is alot more to come, stay "tuned" JJ@ JJ'sSVT
Originally posted by wesman
In another thread JJ's SVT said that the L is safe at 14:1
In another thread JJ's SVT said that the L is safe at 14:1
The problem with the what has been told to the Lightning community is that what is "safe" for you, might not be powerful enough for the next guy.
The thread that you mentioned was about Black2000's trucks dyno numbers. At normal 11.5 A/F's it made decent power but was still lacking for the amount of mods the truck has, so I put in a chip that I knew would take the A/F's up 1-1 1/2 points, then the power came up.
The thread that you mentioned was about Black2000's trucks dyno numbers. At normal 11.5 A/F's it made decent power but was still lacking for the amount of mods the truck has, so I put in a chip that I knew would take the A/F's up 1-1 1/2 points, then the power came up.
Last edited by Gen2 Lightning; Nov 3, 2002 at 09:53 PM.
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From: Selden NY
Thanks Gen2 Lightning,
That's exactly the post I read that in a while ago.
At least I know I'm not going crazy Well maybe, but thats another story. Sal, you just answed my question, your saying at WOT, the tune is all about the chip, and the predetermined tables.
Now it all makes sence, I understand it much better now. I also understand why we DO need a chip with Pulleys. If you want to live dangerous you can go with a lean tune and go a little faster than someone with a A/F 2 points lower than you and the same mods.
That's exactly the post I read that in a while ago.
At least I know I'm not going crazy
Well maybe, but thats another story. Sal, you just answed my question, your saying at WOT, the tune is all about the chip, and the predetermined tables.Now it all makes sence, I understand it much better now. I also understand why we DO need a chip with Pulleys. If you want to live dangerous you can go with a lean tune and go a little faster than someone with a A/F 2 points lower than you and the same mods.
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From: Palm Coast, FL
Originally posted by Rob_02Lightning
If you want to live dangerous you can go with a lean tune and go a little faster than someone with a A/F 2 points lower than you and the same mods.
If you want to live dangerous you can go with a lean tune and go a little faster than someone with a A/F 2 points lower than you and the same mods.
. There are faster trucks out there, but it comes at a price. You'd be surprised how many chip calibrations I've seen over the years that were claimed to be "safe" and were way out in left field. Lean is mean, but the price ain't nice. (I just made that up )
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From: Richmond,VA
Originally posted by Gen2 Lightning
Two little letters, Sal: JJ
[
Two little letters, Sal: JJ
[
If you think a 14 anything is safe on a Blown Motor you have to be crazy or just plan stupid.
You may run quick with a 14 something a/f, but for how long?
I have made 426/536 on the dyno with a 11.2 A/F. A REAL SAFE TUNE! Plus I have made over 1000 passes in my truck 5 of which have been in the 11's, hundred's of 12.0-12.20's, and the rest vary. I have drove all over the east coast to run and have 23K miles. Tell me thats not tuning at its best?? Run your high risk programs all you want... but remember PAY TO PLAY!!
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So can a Tuner just adjust the A/F and fuel tables on a program or does he have to reburn another program on it ? i just got a reburn from a street program i wanted the next step Nothing EXTREME just a lil more HP. Well i got what i wanted Truck runs Strong as hell in 40-50 degree weather But in the nights the temps drop down in the 30's and i get spark knock at 3/4 to full throttle. So what can i have my tuner do to fix it , I like the extra HP so i would like to keep the program but get rid of the spark knock in the colder temps. Can i just have him pull back about 3 degrees of timing or should he richen it up a lil or Both ?
Any info ?
But in the nights the temps drop down in the 30's and i get spark knock at 3/4 to full throttle. So what can i have my tuner do to fix it , I like the extra HP so i would like to keep the program but get rid of the spark knock in the colder temps. Can i just have him pull back about 3 degrees of timing or should he richen it up a lil or Both ?Any info ?