Guy's I need some info.

Could you please either post pics of a "L" water pump (especially the impeller) and/or all other 96+ ford trucks w/info of what they came off of. OR.... e-mail them to wydopnthrtl@yahoo.com

BTW: I was the engineer for all modular water pumps up til early 1998 and I just have been out of touch since. (Again the "impeller" is the real thing I'm after)


Thanks, WOT

 

wydopnthrtl

Ok, clue us in. What kind of HP does it really take to turn a pump to say 3000 motor rpm and 5500 motor rpm. Can a well designed impeller design really pump much more water or pump the same amount with less hp. My bet is that to design a pump that can work at idle in Arizona and still not eat hp at 5500 is a real engineering challange.

Andy Whittle

 

hey WOT,

Charlie told me you designed the different impeller for the Cobra pumps... if he woulda told me sooner I'd have purchased that specific pump instead of the regular direct replacement pump that I ended up buying... you know just to recognize the effort you put into it as an engineer...

by the way, the waterpumps that I saw for a second generation Lightning are a lot like the Crown Victoria pumps... and the impeller is identical as well... I'm sure someone will post a picture, I'm sure the suporting vendors must have plenty.

later,
--Russ

 

Look in my gallery I have a few of them for you .

 

Sorry guy's I've been putting in 16 hr days lately. Don't have much free time.

As far as power consumtion goes? I'll give "opinion's" with "non quanatitive values" so as to CMA.

As best I remember the 4.6L & 5.4L pump speed is approx 30% faster than the crank speed.

So at 3000 crank rpms you'll be turning approx 3900 at the pump. At 5500 that would be approx 7150 pump speed.

Based on RTKILLA's pics I'm very supprised that pump was used as OE! Seems to me (in my water pump designer/engineer opinion) that design would starve pretty earily on the rpm scale. And therefor also use a bunch (it's all relatative) of torque down low as well.

I left the company 4-5 years ago and was'nt sure which one of my designs they used in the Lightnings. Looks like now I know based on RTKILLA's pics.

The cobra impller is nothing more than a cut down 5.4L 7 bladed impeller w/a shroud welded on top. Much testing & fine tuning was done on it, in it's intended environment.

The ONLY things that would prevent me from putting a cobra pump/impeller into my L? Extended idle periods ,slow-summer traffic situations, &/or extended towing trips

I can't give specific HP numbers (CMA), but I can say to go from what appears to be the stock pump to a cobra pump WOULD be a significant reduction in torque consumption along with higher rpm flow quality/characteristics.

I would give the analogy of something along the lines of putting on underdrive pulleys on and old 5.0L stang.

Does anybody have pics of a late model 7 bladed 5.4L pump?

WOT

 

Here's some pics for you...

This shows the impeller on the factory Lightning pump (left), the Cobra pump (middle, with no impeller), and the new Meziere electric pump with freewheel pulley we are now selling (right).



This pic shows the bodies of the three, the Lightning pump is cast iron, the Cobra pump is aluminum, and the Meziere is aluminum...



I have a standard 5.4 pump too, but can't find it for the life of me. I do recall that it was aluminum, and the impeller is similar to the Lightning impeller, but it doesn't have curved blades and they are a tad shorter.

Hope this helps.

 

How's the Electric working out Sal?

 

Sal you need to update your site so we can see all these product on there. I didn't know you had these now.

 

The 7 blade curved vane impeller on the left was designed for the 5.4L std motor. This does'nt match the one on RTKILLA's site. Which one comes factory stock on a new L?


The middle one is for a regular pass car w/elec fan including the 96-98 cobra Stangs.

The "cobra" impeller I'm talking about has 7 blades, a shroud/plate welded on top just like on RTKILLA's site, and we turned the O.D. down to something like 85mm.

The one on the right looks very nice. What rpms does it turn at? (Electric right)

 

Sal is correct on the 96-?? 5.4L pump.

It's identical to the pass car pictured except with a larger O.D. (longer vains)

However I was able to design the 7 blade one to use 25% less torque and still get 95% of the same flow. Not to mention solving some *other* business problems.

 

The one on the left is the factory Lightning pump, taken out of my 01. You can see the fan provision sticks way out, to allow the stock fan to have more clearance with the blower belt. The regular 5.4 pump has the fan threads right off the front, it doesn't stick out. The middle pump is a Cobra pump, also used on all the 4V motors. For a short period of time, there were no impeller rings on them. The current ones have the same exact impeller, with the ring tack welded on. I'm not sure on the rpm of the electric, I can check into that. I have a standard 5.4 pump out of an 00 Expy motor, and it is different than the Lightning pump, impeller wise.

 

Oh and BTW:

The only reason they used the BIG and HEAVY nodular iron pump w/big bearing was to take the high rpms w/the mechanical fan.

The aluminum pumps are designed (and tested) to take some very high axial loads.

Ya'll are probably thinking "I allready know that because we are using them".

I'm just giving an "expert" thumbs up to using the aluminum pumps w/o a mechanical fan.

WOT

 

Hum.. When I left in Feb of 98 the "new" cobra impeller was slated for the 99+ models and was a curved vaned. Although it's tough to tell if you look really close you'll see it's not the same as the straight vaned ones.

It has/had a smaller O.D. than them too.

I also matched the inlet I.D. closer than was the original. (block opening)

I know they look very similar but the path & acceleration characteristics that the water takes while being displaced has been fine tuned in the less than optimally designed block.

WOT

 

 

These are pics of the motorcraft PW-386 pump, SPEC'D for 99-01.5 GTs and Cobras.

I have no idea where these F-150 guys got passenger car pumps and called them Cobra pumps.

My Vic had the "cobra" pump (the middle pump from Sal), which was a POS pump that leaked when I hit 5600 RPM.

I got rid of that POS and installed the PW-386 (BTW PW-400 is the part # for the "cobra" pump), which was OE replacement for 99-01.5 GTs and Cobras.

It works great in my 2000 Crown Vic, and I can rev it to 5600 RPM w/o any problems. I do believe it cavitates (thanks to the underdrives) at an RPM which is unattainable with my motor.