KJ,

I certainly hope you don't think that we are bad-mouthing you because you seem like a decent (but quiet) guy. I believe your Gen 1 may run 12's (I think I heard a 12.2 thrown around) judging by the sound of it. And as you stated, an intercooler could technically be referred to as an aftercooler. As you also stated, Vortech has been touting the "aftercooler" option for their centrifugals for a few years now. However, in the Gen 2 world it is always referred to as an intercooler (Ford has never had a recall on aftercoolers for the '99-'00's), so perhaps it's a simply a matter of semantics.

I've never dealt with Diablo (although since most of their knowledge came from Superchips folks originally I imagine the two are similar in their capabilities, etc. - I'm personally not a Diablo fan for several reasons which I won't air here) but I imagine you deal with Mike Troyer at Superchips (who quite a few people here in Arizona have dealt with also). Anybody can call Mike and tell him I've done A, B and C and I need a burn for it. I actually have done some tuning and I use a dyno and A/F readings to determine what needs to be done to my current burn. I haven't used nor do I have access to an Horiba A/F, NGS/STAR tester, etc. which is what most of the tuners use, so my program probably isn't quite what theirs would be which is why I rely on them.

None of us have questioned your tuning/wrenching abilities (don't usually talk trash about what I'm not familiar with) - what we are questioning is allowing someone to represent you who doesn't know what they're talking about. A constantly changing story, times, mph, mods used, etc. does nothing to add credibility and it certainly didn't help you sell any services to the Gen 2 guys on Saturday night. I also highly doubt bronco0052 has the fastest, much less the strongest, Gen 2 L in Arizona. I've seen a truck or two that I've worked on put down 420+hp and 520+ torque (which I can prove with dyno sheets, WinPep files or we can even have another go on the dyno). In another 3-4 weeks one of those same trucks will be pushing 450-460 and 600 at the back wheels which are real, verifiable numbers and not numbers that are spewed out like the verbal diarrhea several of us witnessed on Saturday night.

As I said before, no one is questioning you or your ability to provide services - but your Gen 2 spokesperson needs a little work.

Dan McGuire
McGuire Motorsports

Matt - What's it going to cost me to find out what it takes to run a 14 flat at 97 mph? And why is it that your sig, which has already been pointed out, hasn't been updated to reflect this alleged 12.8? If you need help figuring out the PC just let one of us know. Oh yeah, and if you also want to break into those big 13's let us know - we'll be more than happy to tell you...for a price.

 

Matt,
I doubt anyone wants to go to Firebird Friday. I actually would go since i'm close but my trans doesn't want to shift out of 1st gear periodically. Last time it happened at the track as it bounced off the limiter 3 times. Ford won't fix it until it happens more often and i can prove it to them. Who knows, maybe the best thing is to take it to the track and beat on it.

Also, what mods will you be running Friday night and what time are you shooting for?
There are no secrets here, we've all done our best to help each other out and not talk sh*t to each other about what we can run.

Dan McGuire has help us all out MANY times with his dyno testing and tuning, not to mention his wealth of knowledge on the Gen II and great wrenching abilities. I think he feels a bit of a slap in the face when he has tons of experience, knowledge, and hard data on these trucks and is told things which just aren't true.

KJ,
Sorry i didn't get a chance to meet you, i only briefly saw you when you came over to back up Matt's 12.8 with only a chip and filter.

Maybe we can all try to put this small issue behind us and get together on a Friday night at Firebird within the next few weeks.

Andy (Weedo)

 

Andy,

You know me...I don't get fired up over anything outside of eeking another hp or two out of my truck. As you (and a number of other people in Phoenix) know, I'm also more than happy to share what I know about these trucks with anyone who will listen. I know what has worked for me and a few others and I leave it at that. If somebody's ignorant enough to be duped by a shyte-talking know-it-all with an attitude than that's their own fault. However, I don't profess to know it all...I know nothing about Gen 1's and my suspension set-up knowledge pales in comparison to that of Ruslow, Spike or our very own Wrongdayj.

Matt,

Let's line them up...we can go from a roll, a stop you name it. We can throw them on a dyno, I'll even pay for your pulls. I can spray, I can not spray - however you want to do it. Based on what you have said, a good portion of which may be fiction, your truck did not run a 12.8. Now if you've omitted a few things that may have been done to it we may have a different story. I'm still willing to find out...straight-up bragging rights, nothing more - say when. Or we can cut to the chase and run your fastest vehicle against mine...anything titled in your name works.

 

Rut Roh....I hear a Hayabusa getting ready to dance.

Sorry I didn't get to see you guys out at the pavillions last weekend. Sounds like I missed some pretty good stuff. Looking forward to the next get together.
Jeff

 

Jeff,

Darn you man...the cat's out of the bag now! Nothing like a little jig danced at about 11,000 rpm to make one forget their troubles.

Dan

Let's Dance!, 4MB (not for the bandwidth challenged)

 

bring them out to the track tonight.bring your hotrods or just watch and we will see.

 

Yet another example of why you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed person...you bore me little man!

 

So how did everyone do at Firebird tonight??

 

I apoligize for the large posting in advance...

This was my first time at the track... it was a blast and met a few lightning owners all cool! I could not hook up real well and my response time was quite poor... but it was a blast and I am looking forward to doing it again.


I got to run against two lightnings one black one that was running the new drag street legal tires... I was truely jealous and will have some by the end of next week.

Car # 45 51 (My Lightning)
R/T .618 1.346 (Dear god you would think I was 90)
60 2.0 2.190
1/4 13.675 13.388
MPH 100.47 104.02

This guy I ran against was a newbee as well and had great reaction time I don't now what to say for me except I need to improve. Great guy and he loves those tires... don't blame him.


Second run was worse. I ran against a silver lightning and this guy was a kick to be around. I would kill for his reaction time...well once again I have work to do.

Car # 217 51 (My Lightning)
R/T .432 1.547 (what can I say, Pulse check needed)
60 2.057 2.190
1/4 13.846 13.52
MPH 100.05 103.78

He red lighted and my lightning fast reaction time I got to see it before I went.

This was a blast and even though it is a competitive atmoshphere all lightning owners were cool.

The first truck I ran against had the et street drags (Great investment) I think a chip and intake and the second truck had an intake, chip and well less than $500 in it. I had my truck on the dyno and it produced 490 HP at the crank completments of ADS in Chandler and I don't remember how much is in my truck or at least that is my new story. because it is some what embarrassing, but I have more knowledge now and I am confident I can crack into the twelves. I gathered some new info and there are a couple of things more that I can do that will make a difference. Thanks for the tips guys...

I am not posting this to **** any one off just stating the facts...I was reading some of the past posting and read about matt's 12.8... (White lightning) I was at the pav. but brought another ride... and missed all the dialog... I was at the track this Friday night... I guess this is called "sissy night".... can anyone fill me in on this? So why is Saturday better? Anyway... Matt can produce the timeslip because I personally witnessed and this is no bull****... He ran a 12.7 something I want to say four but don't kill me if I get it wrong :-) As far as what was claimed he had or did not have I don't want in on any of that because I was not their... All I know is that is very fast. As far as my times I will constantly be revolving to my better times but will have time slips on hand... and will keep the Dyno results with me at all times.:-)

I have to say all the lightning owners I have met out at the Pav. are great guys and I love talking trucks... I have done quite a bit to mine - Mine is the black one that is pearl white in the front and has blue and silver flames... I have to say that I have fallen victim to what my truck can really do. Don't get me wrong my truck is strong and I am very proud of it and like many have quite a bit of mods some that make a difference and some that don't amount to anything but a loss of cash... this is an easy trap to fall in but no more that is my pledge to my lightning brothers... The track proved to me where I really measured. So, if any bull**** ramblings came out of my mouth before I truely knew than I apoligize... the reason for this is that someone will always know a bit more than you and quite frankly that is knowledge I would like to have. I personally feel the dyno is a crock because unless you can transfer that power to speed and win the race your truck is not faster. Driving ability also has a great deal to do with it. My first time to the track produced better e.t's and mph than the two gentlemen I had the oportunity to run against but both won the race. The track is the real proving ground in my book. I have spent some serious cash on my truck and I have several cars that I have done this too. My stable consists of 150K acura nsx built by comptech for paul tracy(race car driver for honda), a cobra mustang that is magazine worthy and should hit 5.0 soon and has every imaginable mod and after some serious dough in it and is now a great car, and of course my beloved Lightning... which by the way is the one I drive the most. It does not matter how much you spend because in the end someone will be faster and this is something you can go to the bank on.

By the way I have a silly story... I saw a older boxy style black lightning and under normal circumstances would have loved to lined up against, so I originally thought untill I saw him run... I do not remeber his e.t. but it struck the fear of god in me. That is one fast truck... Nice guy as well....by the way if your out there what was that unreal e.t.?

With one day at the track I am confident that I have more knowledge of how to get my truck in the twelves.... I will post the results If and when I achieve this...

If their are any 12 second Lightnings out there I would live to compare notes... Greg@PBSTaxFirm.com

When is the next Pav. run?

 

Greg,
You first post huh? Glad to see you had a great time!! We're all a bit curious about why Friday night is "sissy" and "little boy night" too. I think it's just an LMS term to sound cool. As far as backing up a timeslip, i think any of us could do it. As far as backing up a 12.8x with ONLY A CHIP AND A FILTER, no, NO ONE can do that, and i think that was the whole point on backing up the 12.8x. Not backing it up with a bunch of other mods that have been put on.

So by your reaction time, i take it it's the first time you've ever dragged at the quarter mile track? Word to the wise in case no one told you, leave on the 3rd yellow.
What mods are you running to get the mid 13's?

Let us all know when you plan on heading out there again. I'd like to improve on my 13.25 @105 with the F1's. Then again, maybe i'll just bolt on some slicks and put it into the 12's!!

Welcome aboard and glad to see you met some nice Lightning owners at the track!!

 

 

LITEUUP, I was there with another one of my toys and I saw your truck at a distance - very nice paint job. I think I’ve seen your truck around town (how could I miss it). Have you been to the Bark Park at Shawnee Park (Mesquite and Arrowhead)? Never saw you make a pass, but I did manage to see bronco-matt and kjbartling make a pass (I think their first ones). Matt pulled off a 12.84 @ 104.49mph, with an incredible RT of .238sec – a little anxious Matt? The track was the best prepared I’ve seen it in over a year. Great traction at the line. I guess with the Thursday night import venue in place, the ricers aren’t showing up on Friday dragging water all over the starting pad. That really helped.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but as an engineer, I sometimes can be ****. One might say this is just semantics, but it’s critical to understand what’s going on. ET does not indicate how fast someone is. It is a measurement of how quick the vehicle is – a measurement of time only. Fast is measured by speed. And speed is a direct function of how much horsepower is being produced. Why does this matter? Granted a good ET requires horsepower, but you yourself ran nearly as fast as Matt (104.02 vs. 104.49). I’ll guarantee you that the extra .47mph doesn’t equate to a .54 sec quicker ET. Traction management is the key to quick ET’s. It can be applied in several ways; suspension mods, stickier tires, higher stall torque converters, and certainly driver finesse/talent.

My measure of success is MPH since it measures HP. ET (and RT too) is what “wins” the race. But because drag racing isn’t my life, winning to me is posting a great MPH. My truck is my daily driver. I try for the best 60 foot I can get, but I’m not willing to run stupid looking et-streets on some 16” wheels on the back of my truck just so I can claim to be the “fastest” (he means quickest) L in AZ. I think Struck has that Gen 2 title for the fastest at over 107mph(?). As far as I know KJ has the fastest and quickest title for the Gen 1’s – the run I saw he turned a 12.37 @ 109.57mph. He has a very impressive machine. The drag strip to me is my poor man’s dyno. I can compare others on the same night who is making horsepower. Harnessing the horsepower should be congratulated. And Matt has done that. But he’s not making anywhere near the horsepower Struck is making. As I’ve said before, there will always be someone faster, someone quicker, and someone richer. I want to retire early, so my money is being focused elsewhere.

Bottom line – I had a great night! I watched some great races, met some great people and resources, and competed in two of the closest races I’ve ever had. This was my second time out in my high school car (I’ve had it for 21 years) – stock motor, 190K miles, and incredible inefficient log-style exhaust manifolds. Ran a best 95.27mph @ 14.633sec (my best ET for those who care was 14.522 @ 94.72mph). Seven races under the old ’68 AMX’s belt, still undefeated. I don’t think I’ll race her again (who am I kidding).

 

If I recall right, after pavilions car show Bronco0052 raced a Bone Stock LS1 Camaro. After talking **** the entire time at pavilions, Bronco then got beat by this bone stock Camaro 2 times, one mid-race, another off the line. This LS1 is supposed to run 13.5-13.7 Stock. Whats up with that? Wheres your 12.8?? Just proves that bronco does not run a 12.8 1/4.

 

Matt,

It appears that I stand corrected...and your truck will truly post a 12.8x run. What I'm still a little fuzzy on (and I can name four people who will back me up on this claim) is that 12.8x certainly didn't occur with only a chip and filter. It would now appear that it took a chip, filter, "aftercooler," exhaust work, torque converter and who knows what other "secrets" may be lurking under your hood. I will raise my glass and toast what is currently the quickest Gen 2 in Arizona (by a scant .04 seconds)...for the next three days. I will drag my POS "stock" Gen 2 out to Speedworld this Wednesday night for all to see. My last time out on stock F1's and about 40 hp worth of mods ago I ran a 12.95 at 107. So, provided my latest mods (without the aid of slicks, a torque converter, traction bars, etc.) pan out and traction is decent I expect to be in the 12.5-12.6 range at only 108-110 mph. While your 12.84 is impressive it tells me a few things...the slicks and torque converter are getting you out of the hole with some scoot but your 104 on top tells me that you're running out of steam in a big way (hell, I ran a 15.6 at 105 mph when I spun all the way out of the hole).

So, my advice is don't allow your big mouth to make bets that you can't make good on (your offer to race me for $1K) because on the street without the aid of slicks your 12.8x leads me to believe you would have been crushed and if we went from a roll (which is the bet I would have made thereby negating your torque converter and any traction problems I may have had) I would have walked you something fierce (not unlike that Camaro that appears to have spanked you like a newborn).

Again, congrats on backing up the some of your verbal diarrhea but come Thursday morning you will be neither the quickest nor the fastest Gen 2 in Arizona...and I'll be man enough to even scan the timeslip and tell everyone and their brother exactly what I have done to my truck (in fact JoeLightning got a complete rundown including dyno runs the other day when he asked). Unlike you, I'm not size challenged and I feel the need to neither talk shyte nor keep secrets.

Dan

 

Weedo:

Thanks for the tip… did not get that until after the track was closed…. You suppose this was intential, kiddingJ Lots of mods… JBA headers, custom mandrel bent 3 inch exhaust with magnaflow muffler and a set of highflow RV cats to keeps the state happy, pulley, electric fan (JBA complete kit in MMFF), therm., custom burn flip chip on a dyno one on pump gas the other on racing fuel, plugs (I think but can’t remember now, to many toys) PSP intake with cold air option, which are tubes going into the truck through the fender and under the truck through a scoop located under the front spoiler, and I can’t remember what else… I am adding the single blade TB, larger pulley, and some tires this week and maybe truck track bars?

I think I am going to shoot for next Friday if I get everything installed and what not… Should happen! Slicks are great for two reasons, traction and more passes… (You get to run done the track more than non slicks auto’s).

Thank you for the welcome….

JoeLightning:

Thanks for the compliment, when I took delivery of the truck (2001) I was happy I figured there would not be too many new ones out their for a bit and I kid you not I was in Scottsdale and saw three black ones 2001 no less the same day of delivery. It was immediately scheduled for paint to set mine apart… I think I nailed my objective.

Firebird is the only place I have been and it was my first time ever…

Thanks for your perspective it is the different opinions that we are able to share that makes this country so great! That quick time to me…buy its lonesome show me how impressive a truck or car for that matter is… I have a friend that has a no **** 600HP mustang and he runs 14’s all day because he can’t transfer the power, he actually rolls the car out and gradually builds speed… his MPH is un real. I would love to face him on the street any time because I will be long gone before he builds up steam.

My truck is a daily driver as well and I can tell you that finally MPH is bragging rights as far as I am concerned and that 107 that is out there is crazy. “Struck you’re my hero!” By the way there are drag… street legal tires for 18’s and they look great on the lightning… Nice talking with you…