Sorry Sal! I have to disagree with that. All engines are not created equal today! The 5.4L may not have been around as long as the 360 or 350 chevy. Todays engines are better engineered.

The 5.9L is on the ropes when it goes against the modular engines and chevy's updated LT1 design. The Viper V-10 is still a pushrod motor. Why didn't they make it O/H cam engine? Their engine program lacks the ability to make a performance oriented modular motor. They are still in the stoneage with refinement to old pushrod engines.

Even the old 350 isn't a contender anymore with more efficient O/H cam, high RPM engine designs. GM had to change and so will chrysler. They can't put a Vipeir engine in every performance vehicle line. The viper engines are hand built and had to use two additional cylinders to get the hp.

Another thing is quality of the product. Chysler has a far worse reputation for lack of quality than Ford and GM. Cutting cost and corners on manufacturing has kept a cloud over chrysler. Why did it take them so long to develop an engine program and get back into NASCAR. Cheap is cheap.

Sal...... That is like saying all chips are created equal! You as a tuner know that is not true. You sell your chip based on the quality of the program and chip manufacturer. Right? If not. Then all tuners must be equal? Would it matter who had been around the longest? No! It comes down to quality!

This is my opinion and is not intended to flame or get fingers pointing. A chrysler engine does not have the same quality as Ford and GM. Why are they no longer #3. Toyota passed them up. I would like to see a production dodge 5.9L engine with a S/C take the abuse the L has and last just as long. Won't happen in MYHO. Not all engines are created equal.

Thor.

 

I like my Lightning and the 5.4 motor. I think that I will just go with the Manley rods. Some nice custom pistons, three valve heads and the new coated rotor pack in the Eaton.

 

Thor, I agree with you. I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean that the 360 was a better engine. What I meant was, that particular motor (as well as a Ford 302, or Chevy small block) has had 40 years to go through it's paces, get it's flaws found, and be revised MANY times to improve it. The design of the modular Ford V8 is like no other engine. The ideas and engineering behind it are great, and these motors make more power with less displacement. However, the 5.4 with it's small bore and long stroke, is still in it's teething process. While is it a great motor now, it will be improved. I'm sure the 5.4 of 2010 will be a vast improvement over what we now own, especially with the rate that technology improves nowadays, compared to years ago.

 

That is the stupidest thing I've read all day.

 

I'm going to take your comments one at a time.


"The lightning is made perfect from the factory..."

What? How come I'm always hearing about problems such as windshield trim, piston slap, door cracks, fog light cracks, and all kinds of other problems?

"It is the people who mess with their engines who have all the problems"

Wrong again. There are some stock truck which have had engine problems.

I personally believe it is the lean mixture they are running as a result of the aftermarket chip (FMU). Go check out the recent post of blown L's and check out what chip the majority of them had.

Did you read the thread? There are a few who broke rods. A broken rod has nothing to do with fuel mixture especially when the plugs, pistons and valves are perfect.

You can buy any truck you want...but us L's will be the ones whooping your as* on the road.

Actually the 91 syclone is very comparable to the Lightning and may even be faster (considering both are stock).

 

Everyone pause and take a deep breath.


ok.....that's better.


I don't understand why everyone is so emotional about the motors exploding issue? I guess it must be because there are more people having serious engine damage. This isn't because of a engineering flaw. It's just that more people are pushing the envelope. It’s just too easy to increase HP on a factory supercharged engine with a chip and a pulley.

Back in the old 5.0L Mustang days, people didn't get all worked up when blocks split or you trashed your 5th T-5 tranny. I guess the reason people didn't get worked up is that by the time transmissions started going out on a monthly basis or blocks split in half that they were at a significantly higher level of modification than most Lightning owners. It's hard to screw up a naturally aspirated engine (that's why I ditched my 17 psi procharger on my stang). All it takes to kill a supercharged engine is a change in fuel, timing, or ambient air conditions. You can get great HP out of a blown engine, but if you run it on the edge you are going to have problems eventually. People are taking this for granted and may not be running a “safe” tune. How much is that extra 10-20 HP really worth?

Detonation can make rods fail, even if there is no damage to plugs or pistons. Detonation occurs on the compression stroke of the piston. If combustion (detonation) occurs while the piston is still on it's way up to TDC then the forces the rod/piston/crank take are exponentially higher than normal. If the piston was strong enough to survive the increase forces/temperature then the rod/crank/block can fail. Depending on how loud the truck/car is you may not ever hear it.

I don't understand the "Ford should have put better rods in" mentallity that is going on either. If you mod your truck great, but if you scatter the bottom end of your motor I don't think it's reasonable to make Ford pick up the bill. If you are stock, then yes it's their fault.

I guess everyone is just getting upset because people are finally realizing it's not a free lunch. Everyone needs to realize that by putting a chip on or putting a pulley on, that you are going outside the normal parameters that the truck was designed to take. Even if you are within parameters you are reducing the safety factor. As power goes up reliability goes down. The only problem with a supercharged or turbocharged engine is that a small problem can cause catastrophic engine failure. It's not like an F-body or stang were a bad chip or fuel pump just makes the car run bad.

BTW, that's why my Lightning only has a K&N panel filter and I race my Mustang. I got tired of trying to race my daily driver. After my warranty is out I may chip and pulley my Lightning, but I'll let the other people push the envelope first.

 

You said it.
Don't cry when you thrash your truck, you have to expect that. Look at at all the super tuners. Lingenfelter, Hennesy, Saleen.
When the go nuts with a vehical, internal motor mods are always done to prevent whats happening to our L's. You have to think ahead before going ape s**t with your truck.

Look at Saleen's new Stang, it runs w/ the Cobra R, the 4.6L is totaly worked over, in and out. Thats only to pushout over 400hp.

 

Sal,
Ok!! I agree with that! I took it the other way!

 

TINSTAAFL

meaning "There is no such thing as a free lunch"

 

Exactly, Ford made a limited production modified truck. They have to expect that the owners of such a vehicle will push it to the limit and therefore be prepared to take some responsibility when they break. Not void the engine warranty when Lightnings come in for service.

A few quotes from the 2001 Lightning brochure.

"...this super truck is equally at home on the racetrack..."
"This mighty machine takes no prisoners."
"UNDER HARD ACCELERATION..."
"Tough and dependable..."
"Powerful and willing, this sport truck for the ages is a dynamic performer."
"TURN IT LOOSE..."
"Expect nothing less from a "customer driven" company."
"SVT offers new owners a discount at the Bob Bondurant School of High Performance Driving, where skills can be honed..."

 

Philosophically speaking……..if your argument is valid then an extreme case should be as true as a minor case.

Do you think Ford should warranty engine damage caused by Nitrous Oxide? If yes……what’s the cut off point 75 HP, 125 HP, 300 HP?

At what point should Ford not warranty an engine from too much boost? +2 lbs? +4 lbs? +25 lbs?

What computer parameters can be changed? All of them? Can a person lean the truck out as much as they want and get the engine replaced every time they melt a piston? How much timing can you add before Ford shouldn’t have to pay?

Since you like quoting SVT, did you read that page in the owners manual that states something to the extent, “Any performance modifications will void warranty”?

I’m not trying to ruffle anyone’s feathers, but I think people have to accept some personal responsibility for their actions. If you mod your truck and your engine blows up, it’s your fault…….not Fords, not a tuners……yours.

 

Ford, by law, cannot void engine warranties if you have engine modifications. It is that simple. From what I have heard of the engine warranty voids going on is that Ford looks at the PCM and voids a warranty. By law they must prove that the modification caused the engine failure. I don't believe they have done this.

So, what is a mod? Electric fan, airbox modification, K&N filter, different oil filter, different battery, different tires, suspension drop, billet grill, aftermarket hood, BedRug, bedcover, billet antenna, billet pedals, aftermarket mirrors, roll pan, pan hard bar, deep transmission pan, water wetter, aftermarket headlights, aftermarket taillights, roll bar, aftermarket seats, smooth wiper cowl, smooth side steps, lightning floor mats, shaving emblems, alarm system, billet rear view mirror, driveshaft loop, canton oil pan, accusump, aftermarket shocks. When does this stop?

If I mod my truck and then it breaks Ford Motor Company must prove that the mods caused the failure. If Ford doesn't want to follow the law they should start selling vehicles w/o warranties(cobra R). If Ford proves the aftermarket part caused the failure then fine...the vehicle owner should pay, I don't have a problem with that.

 

In response to the statement in the Ford owners manual that says "Any performance Modifications will void the vehicle warranty." \

I never even saw the owners manual until I had signed My purchase contract. I don`t think this staement is in the bill of sale. How can they hold you to this statement if you never signed off on it.

 

ricekicker:You're an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

but it seems to keep poping up. Anyhow i think it has been proven that the only way to safely modify your truck is to buy wet okoles!!!! Since the majority of us aren't engineers, no matter what you do to your truck to enhance performace, you are taking a chance. Not to flame on anyone or anything but everyone should be aware of this:

The majority of he products comming from tuners are not dyno tested at long durations like the stock production parts(hopefully) are. One tuners chip may work great on your truck, but mine could be different. The only way to have a chip tuned to the best possible tune is a custom tune.....and there's still no guarentees. **** happens.

I think the main thing to remember is when trying to improve engine performance, stuff like air filters are fine, but when you start reallying pushing the engine with 5 pound pulleys and 100hp shots of nitrous.....i don't think anyone on this board doesn't know that there is a damn good chance your gonna eventually run into trouble. I don't think there are many trucks on here that are heavily modded with 50k miles or more. Maybe we should suggest to the newbies when they start asking about mods.....are you gonna race or not? If so, your first mods should be internal upgrades and go from there............Sunday afternoon.....just thinking.