View Poll Results: Why are engines blowing?
Too much boost ?
91
48.66%
Too lean ?
66
35.29%
Bad parts ?
21
11.23%
Driven too hard ?
68
36.36%
Tuned for 1/4 Mile - Not 140 mph blasts
12
6.42%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll
Why are engines blowing?
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 668
Likes: 0
From: Mi.
I think we are starting to see the long term effects of certain mods. The engines aren't blowing up the same day the mods were installed!
Most of the people use their L's as daily drivers. It also looks like most of the engines are blowing on the street and not the track!
You can stress a rod at an earlier time then when you go to get on it a little it blows! The damage was done earlier! It just took time for that stress fracture to travel fare enough to ventalate the block!!
Most of the people use their L's as daily drivers. It also looks like most of the engines are blowing on the street and not the track!
You can stress a rod at an earlier time then when you go to get on it a little it blows! The damage was done earlier! It just took time for that stress fracture to travel fare enough to ventalate the block!!
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,519
Likes: 0
From: Greater Boston
hmmm
I'm not exactly sure how the circuitry works on the maf-ecu, but if there was a problem with the maf peaking over 5v and sending the computer into default mode......is there anyway of putting some kind of diode or such into the circuit which will limit the voltage to under 5 volts? Or is this something that could cause even more trouble?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,297
Likes: 0
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
Tallimeca,
I never said there we NO stock trucks that threw rods, because I don't know that. I said the *majority* of the people posting up about their blown engines have mods. We need to stop distorting facts.
I've been on this board since I bought my 2000 in Feb. (check the post count), and I really do not remember coming across any posts of someone who broke a rod in their stock engine. Like I said, I remember a few heads going, some broken valves from spark-plugs going down, and a spun bearing.
There will always be a couple engines in the mix that won't work right, and they'll break. Some of the tuners have said that people told them a stock engine went... The first Lightning engine I remember hearing was blown was either HighRisk or Sal, I don't remember who was first. They both bent a valve from a spark plug gone south. HighRisk did it on his first sub-12 run with Nitrous at E-Town, I've got the pics of him sitting on truck, blower off, going through the internals. Sal came over with his NGS and ran some diagnostics...then I gave everyone a scenic tour of the NJ pinelands on the way to what was obviously, not the shortest path to the Olive Garden.
My statement is this: People keep whipping out these ludacrious numbers spreading an uneeded fear. The FUD factor will scare away alot of people from truly enjoying their trucks. There is no reason to perpetuate and fears, uncertainies and doubts over inaccurate information and incomplete facts. Pull up the "half a dozen" broken rod stock engine posts, I'd love to see them. :) I especially don't remember them in the last few months, but going back further, memory gets a little foggy. :)
Look at the actual blown engine post. There are *10* replies there, 10. 3 of them are bent/cracked valves form plugs. I know a couple of other owners that blew motors that havn't replied there, maybe 5 more. Out of what, 20,000 some lightnings now, in an ACTIVE community on here of I would imagine is close to atleast 1000 registered lightning others, we're seeing a 1%2-% engine failure rate, and it is *USUALLY* guys that are pushing the mods for hard speed.
I feel comfortible and confident in the build of the engine that I will probably install a chip, headers, and a 2lb lower pully on my truck without rebuilding the block...any more then that and I'd have to think about it.
I just want to see people stop making these huge, wild out of the blue calls that lightnings everywhere are falling out of the sky and throwing a dozen rods a week. The truck is a solid machine...alot of the 2000s, the 2001s and 2002s stand pretty firm on not having any large piston slap issues, which was the issue of the day on the 99's and some of the early 2000s.
Lets stop feeding the paranoia and keep the details, facts, and goals in clear sight. :) Then we can all enjoy polishing the hell out of our lightning show truck, driving the hell out of our lightning race truck or cruising in what is just one of the coolest trucks to ever conquer the asphalt jungle. Thats what its all about. :)
Daniel
I never said there we NO stock trucks that threw rods, because I don't know that. I said the *majority* of the people posting up about their blown engines have mods. We need to stop distorting facts.
I've been on this board since I bought my 2000 in Feb. (check the post count), and I really do not remember coming across any posts of someone who broke a rod in their stock engine. Like I said, I remember a few heads going, some broken valves from spark-plugs going down, and a spun bearing.
There will always be a couple engines in the mix that won't work right, and they'll break. Some of the tuners have said that people told them a stock engine went... The first Lightning engine I remember hearing was blown was either HighRisk or Sal, I don't remember who was first. They both bent a valve from a spark plug gone south. HighRisk did it on his first sub-12 run with Nitrous at E-Town, I've got the pics of him sitting on truck, blower off, going through the internals. Sal came over with his NGS and ran some diagnostics...then I gave everyone a scenic tour of the NJ pinelands on the way to what was obviously, not the shortest path to the Olive Garden.
My statement is this: People keep whipping out these ludacrious numbers spreading an uneeded fear. The FUD factor will scare away alot of people from truly enjoying their trucks. There is no reason to perpetuate and fears, uncertainies and doubts over inaccurate information and incomplete facts. Pull up the "half a dozen" broken rod stock engine posts, I'd love to see them. :) I especially don't remember them in the last few months, but going back further, memory gets a little foggy. :)
Look at the actual blown engine post. There are *10* replies there, 10. 3 of them are bent/cracked valves form plugs. I know a couple of other owners that blew motors that havn't replied there, maybe 5 more. Out of what, 20,000 some lightnings now, in an ACTIVE community on here of I would imagine is close to atleast 1000 registered lightning others, we're seeing a 1%2-% engine failure rate, and it is *USUALLY* guys that are pushing the mods for hard speed.
I feel comfortible and confident in the build of the engine that I will probably install a chip, headers, and a 2lb lower pully on my truck without rebuilding the block...any more then that and I'd have to think about it.
I just want to see people stop making these huge, wild out of the blue calls that lightnings everywhere are falling out of the sky and throwing a dozen rods a week. The truck is a solid machine...alot of the 2000s, the 2001s and 2002s stand pretty firm on not having any large piston slap issues, which was the issue of the day on the 99's and some of the early 2000s.
Lets stop feeding the paranoia and keep the details, facts, and goals in clear sight. :) Then we can all enjoy polishing the hell out of our lightning show truck, driving the hell out of our lightning race truck or cruising in what is just one of the coolest trucks to ever conquer the asphalt jungle. Thats what its all about. :)
Daniel
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: San Dimas, CA USA
Originally posted by Thor01
I'm going to add my .02. I agree that bad parts should be removed from the survey. No one here as of yet has posted a blown stock engine! Not that im aware of!!
The parts are engineered to take the stock hp rating. You alter that and that makes it a bad part? That's like buying a stock vette and moding the ***** out of it. Blowing it up at the track and saying it was the engines fault. It was the owners fault for not having the sense or not knowing what they were doing. I see more people here buying mods and don't understand the basic fundamentals of a combustable engine.
I'm sure their would be less blown engines if the people were more educated or informed as to the functionality of the mods and how it effects the engine.
It is going to be hard to point the finger at a tuner here. Everyone believes their tuner can do no wrong. Well, we are all human and make mistakes. Even if it was the chip! How can you prove it.
Are the tuners going to pull $7K out of thier pocket and admit it was their chip or program? Hell no! Buy it at your own risk! No one taks responsibility for what they do! It's always someone elses fault! It's the rods or chip, pulley maybe.
How about owner didn't know what he/she was doing! Seeing posts like....... What is this pinging i hear? What is detonation? Ford is trying to screw me, Lost my warrenty because I had mods, heard a noise and didn't let up at WOT. Now i have pieces falling from my engine!!!!!!
Sorry, done venting! Get educated if you are going to mod!!
Thor.
I'm going to add my .02. I agree that bad parts should be removed from the survey. No one here as of yet has posted a blown stock engine! Not that im aware of!!
The parts are engineered to take the stock hp rating. You alter that and that makes it a bad part? That's like buying a stock vette and moding the ***** out of it. Blowing it up at the track and saying it was the engines fault. It was the owners fault for not having the sense or not knowing what they were doing. I see more people here buying mods and don't understand the basic fundamentals of a combustable engine.
I'm sure their would be less blown engines if the people were more educated or informed as to the functionality of the mods and how it effects the engine.
It is going to be hard to point the finger at a tuner here. Everyone believes their tuner can do no wrong. Well, we are all human and make mistakes. Even if it was the chip! How can you prove it.
Are the tuners going to pull $7K out of thier pocket and admit it was their chip or program? Hell no! Buy it at your own risk! No one taks responsibility for what they do! It's always someone elses fault! It's the rods or chip, pulley maybe.
How about owner didn't know what he/she was doing! Seeing posts like....... What is this pinging i hear? What is detonation? Ford is trying to screw me, Lost my warrenty because I had mods, heard a noise and didn't let up at WOT. Now i have pieces falling from my engine!!!!!!
Sorry, done venting! Get educated if you are going to mod!!
Thor.
My point is this. For $35,000 they should be giving us their best work. Not something that will barely hold up under 400HP when the truck is already rated at 380. If it is rated at 380, it should be able to take 600. And if they are giving us their best parts...then they need to look at a stronger motor...because this **** sucks.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
From: La Habra, CA
Well, if there is going to be a long term test of mods, I'll be able to give you updates. 42,000 miles and counting, including 800 miles last week.
No mechanical hiccup's yet.
The following mods have been on my truck for the indicated miles:
Pro-M mass air- 35,000 miles
Swanson Custom Chip - 28,700 miles
Truck Traks Traction bars - 26,700 miles
PSP 2# pulley with Swanson chip reburn - 10,200 miles
The truck is driven hard, but has not been abused. It has been drag raced occasionally, but not reguarly. It has seen 135 + MPH a few times.
It runs well, and is reliable as a rock. (GM pun intended)
No mechanical hiccup's yet.
The following mods have been on my truck for the indicated miles:
Pro-M mass air- 35,000 miles
Swanson Custom Chip - 28,700 miles
Truck Traks Traction bars - 26,700 miles
PSP 2# pulley with Swanson chip reburn - 10,200 miles
The truck is driven hard, but has not been abused. It has been drag raced occasionally, but not reguarly. It has seen 135 + MPH a few times.
It runs well, and is reliable as a rock. (GM pun intended)
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,297
Likes: 0
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
I feel that if you are going to pay Ford and SVT a premium ($35,000+) for a truck...and that is what it is...a truck...you should be getting the absolute best parts there are. They already know that people are going to modify them...that is a given. Hell...people modify Geo Metros!!!
My point is this. For $35,000 they should be giving us their best work. Not something that will barely hold up under 400HP when the truck is already rated at 380. If it is rated at 380, it should be able to take 600.
My point is this. For $35,000 they should be giving us their best work. Not something that will barely hold up under 400HP when the truck is already rated at 380. If it is rated at 380, it should be able to take 600.
First, our trucks are $32,000, not $35,000+, and most people are paying $30,000 for them. The best-of-breed parts would give it a Cobra-R price tag, you'd be paying $50g for it! Alot of the owners on here would not even HAVE one at that price tag.
Modifying is a do-at-your-own-risk undertaking, even on a Metro. They designed the truck to be the fastest-production truck on the market and NOT charge an arm and a leg for it....and it is that. Out of the box, this truck is mean as hell. The majority of engine failures are happening on chipped, pullied trucks (with other small mods), so you figure what:
chip 45-50rwhp
2-4lbs pulley 25-50rwhp?
eletric fan 10rwhp
new waterpump 5rwhp
larger MAF ~10-15rwhp
headers ~10-15rwhp
That is an average increase of 105-145rwhp, you pull in 15% for drivetrain losses, and thats 120-166hp gain at the flywheel. Strap that on to the 380 stock and thats 500-550hp pushing on a block that was already thought to be able handle a max of only 550-600hp...so now you have the weak links popping up.
I don't see anything "unusual", or a reason to run around blaming anything other then pushing the envelope. Alot of people guessed in the past (both gearheads and tuners alike) that the max of the stock block would end up being somewhere around 600hp, and now its being shown that it is. Some trucks will quit ealier (~450rwhp), some later (~500rwhp) because you are at the high-end of the tolerances. The pieces are already past what they were certified for, so you start to play pot luck. If you got a good draw, you happen to pull some stronger components, if you got a bad draw, then you're probably trying to figure out where to get a new engine from cheap right now.
The only "cheaper" performance cars (<$50,000) I know that can handle huge amounts of power (600hp+) without much of a change in stock equipment are the Toyota Supra and Mazda RX-7. The Supra being the most nuts, but then agian, that car cost alot more then the Lightning in the first place...in an RX-7, when you push 600hp, you need to upgrade seals, hoses and such. We are trying to push 600hp with only changing spark plugs? come on...in my opinion, do that, and you should buy some Powerball tickets while you are at it.
Daniel
Last edited by thepawn; Jan 29, 2002 at 12:07 PM.
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: San Dimas, CA USA
Originally posted by thepawn
Sam
First, our trucks are $32,000, not $35,000+, and most people are paying $30,000 for them.
Modifying is a do-at-your-own-risk undertaking, even on a Metro. They designed the truck to be the fastest-production truck on the market and NOT charge an arm and a leg for it....and it is that. Out of the box, this truck is mean as hell. The majority of engine failures are happening on chipped, pullied trucks (with other small mods), so you figure what:
That is an average increase of 105-145rwhp, you pull in 15% for drivetrain losses, and thats 120-166hp gain at the flywheel. Strap that on to the 380 stock and thats 500-550hp pushing on a block that was already thought to be able handle a max of only 550-600hp...so now you have the weak links popping up.
I don't see anything "unusual", or a reason to run around blaming anything other then pushing the envelope. Alot of people guessed in the past (both gearheads and tuners alike) that the max of the stock block would end up being somewhere around 600hp, and now its being shown that it is. Some trucks will quit ealier (~450rwhp), some later (~500rwhp) because you are at the high-end of the tolerances. The pieces are already past what they were certified for, so you start to play pot luck. If you got a good draw, you happen to pull some stronger components, if you got a bad draw, then you're probably trying to figure out where to get a new engine from cheap right now.
We are trying to push 600hp with only changing spark plugs? come on...in my opinion, do that, and you should buy some Powerball tickets while you are at it.
Daniel
Sam
First, our trucks are $32,000, not $35,000+, and most people are paying $30,000 for them.
Modifying is a do-at-your-own-risk undertaking, even on a Metro. They designed the truck to be the fastest-production truck on the market and NOT charge an arm and a leg for it....and it is that. Out of the box, this truck is mean as hell. The majority of engine failures are happening on chipped, pullied trucks (with other small mods), so you figure what:
That is an average increase of 105-145rwhp, you pull in 15% for drivetrain losses, and thats 120-166hp gain at the flywheel. Strap that on to the 380 stock and thats 500-550hp pushing on a block that was already thought to be able handle a max of only 550-600hp...so now you have the weak links popping up.
I don't see anything "unusual", or a reason to run around blaming anything other then pushing the envelope. Alot of people guessed in the past (both gearheads and tuners alike) that the max of the stock block would end up being somewhere around 600hp, and now its being shown that it is. Some trucks will quit ealier (~450rwhp), some later (~500rwhp) because you are at the high-end of the tolerances. The pieces are already past what they were certified for, so you start to play pot luck. If you got a good draw, you happen to pull some stronger components, if you got a bad draw, then you're probably trying to figure out where to get a new engine from cheap right now.
We are trying to push 600hp with only changing spark plugs? come on...in my opinion, do that, and you should buy some Powerball tickets while you are at it.
Daniel
Secondly, I agree with your argument about pushing the envelope of what the engines are designed for. Yes, these engines do break, just like everyone else's...because heck...they are machines right? Anything can break, but if the engines are truly capable of 600HP, and made by a specialty team who designed it that way, then every last one of them should take 600HP because all the parts internally should be checked. Yeah, some cars cost a lot of money for what they are because they are checked...but we are talking 600HP here...that is not a little bit of power by any means!!! Be more careful with it! Heck, last time I checked, the Chrysler 360 (5.9L engine) hasn't had any problems whatsoever with bottom end BS...now I know it isn't rated for the power like the L's...but it can be made to run right up there, no problems at all. Heck, I know one guy who is pushing close to 650 ft-lbs of torque to the back wheels and hasn't had any problems. There will come a point in time for the 5.4 that everyone says "we need a stronger motor."
And third...I'm in California...and last I checked, we can't get Powerball tickets here.
Thanks!
Sam
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,519
Likes: 0
From: Greater Boston
pawn
Originally posted by thepawn
JMAN -
Go read the blown engine check in, all the engines that vented from a rod were NOT stock at ALL. They had chips, pulleys, and an airfilter/maf mod combo of some sort ATLEAST.
There have been NO broken rods on a stock engine. There have been some head/valve problems from loose spark plugs, and there was someone who spun a bearing. But -no- rods.
The rods are fine for their stock application. Through another 100hp on them and sure, yes, they are a weak link.
Daniel
JMAN -
Go read the blown engine check in, all the engines that vented from a rod were NOT stock at ALL. They had chips, pulleys, and an airfilter/maf mod combo of some sort ATLEAST.
There have been NO broken rods on a stock engine. There have been some head/valve problems from loose spark plugs, and there was someone who spun a bearing. But -no- rods.
The rods are fine for their stock application. Through another 100hp on them and sure, yes, they are a weak link.
Daniel
Then I had asked after If you were talking about the checkin, or in general
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 6,713
Likes: 0
From: Orland Park, IL just south of chicago
I drive the hell out of my truck. Its gets a beating every time I drive it and I realize that I choose to drive it that way. My motor hasn't had any trouble YET! but I know that if I do, its not going to be fords fault. With how many after market parts we have on these trucks and for how much abuse they are taking with a stock motor, I think they did a good job.
Think about it, us guys that are running low 12's and high 11's would have a low 10 to high 9 second mustang if this motor was in one. Thats pretty damn good in my eyes.
99.9% of these trucks would run perfect if they where stock! And you all know that. I do too, BUT I JUST LOVE TO GO FASTER AND FASTER.
Think about it, us guys that are running low 12's and high 11's would have a low 10 to high 9 second mustang if this motor was in one. Thats pretty damn good in my eyes.
99.9% of these trucks would run perfect if they where stock! And you all know that. I do too, BUT I JUST LOVE TO GO FASTER AND FASTER.