As you can see from my signature, I have both JDM and JL parts on my truck, so I'm not trying to start anything. And, chances are, I would have had some PSP products on my truck had Sal been able to respond to my e-mail questions about them several months ago. He was short handed at the time, but now has very good customer response thanks to new help. So, as you can see, I'm not bashing any of the "big three" tuners, but tonight, something struck me.

For several months, we have been reading about the advantages and disadvantages of pulleys with and without cages. From what I've been able to gather, the pulley with the cage retains the factory design and supposedly eliminates crankshaft bearing wear as a result of upward pulling on the crank. The pulley without the cage obviously can't do anything about upward pull because nothing holds it back.

Before I had any pulley on my truck, I was mainly concerned about overspinning the blower and having the rotors smash into one another causing catastrophic failure. I saw that nobody has posted of such a problem, regardless of "brand." My next concern was that of the cage. Surely Ford put it there for a reason. As luck would have it, I "won" a free JDM pulley for going to my Ford dealer and getting the printout for its description. So far, I haven't received it. I assume Jim is still taking care of those people who have been waiting a while. But, before I won my free pulley, I had told JL by e-mail his pulley looked great and that I wanted one. Well, he sent me one by C.O.D. when he got them in. Since the best weather for racing is upon us, I installed it, even though I still look forward to seeing JDM's design.

All I can say is that the added boost makes a tremendous difference. And boost is boost, no matter which camp it comes from. But here's the point of my post...when I installed JL's pulley, I was surprised at how little it stuck out from the front, main pulley. That cage is somewhat of an optical illusion in making the factory pulley look WAY out there. I was also very surprised at how heavy the stock pulley was. Forget the cage's weight - the stock pulley is a boat anchor with all that steel and rubber. So, it makes me wonder if the cage isn't on there because of the sheer weight of the pulley, and most importantly, if the pulley is only slightly IMBALANCED. Imagine 10 lbs at the end of the crank with a 1 oz imbalance spinning at 6k rpms? You know how tires feel with a 1 oz imbalance at 60 mph, and that's at around 600 rpms for the tires. So IMO, the factory had to take that into account. And so you have the cage.

JL's pulley is extremely light, and while using the finger test with a rag while the engine is running, I could feel no variations in the metal as it spun. And I can feel .001" like that. Surprisingly, my engine is MUCH, MUCH smoother now, that's how bad the factory piece is (or mine was). And I had a smooth one before, or so I thought. That's how good the tuner pulleys are. And before some of you get started, I would imagine JDM and PSP is the same way. I think the stock piece is just that bad.

But, back to what I found tonight. I took a tape measure and measured the distance from the center of the JL pulley to the L's timing chain cover. It was 3 1/2". I remembered my old Vette's accessory pulley seeming to stick out way farther than that. Unfortunately, I don't have it anymore. But I do have a completely original '67 4 BBL 327 on an engine stand with the factory pulley and harmonic balancer. I measured the distance to the timing cover from the accessory pulley and it was 4 1/4". That was with only 2 belt grooves. My '76 had the balancer, a 2-groove pulley, and then another single-groove pulley stuck to the first pulley. That thing stuck out a mile and a half past the crank. And was somewhat wobbly too (stamped steel) from the factory and my bearings were perfect after a 150,000 mile teardown.

Then, some may say the S/C pulls almost 50 hp on the front bearing. True. But what about the old, inefficient, very hard to turn R-4 air conditioning compressors used in the older cars? In my Vette, I could feel the car slow down when I turned on the A/C as I was driving it. That had to be at least 25 HP by SOP and the pulley was way out there on the crank.

I'm sorry this was so lengthy. I too was concerned about tearing up my truck, but after that measurement and using common sense, I'm not too worried about it anymore. Jim@JDM, I still would like you to send me the pulley I won....I have a friend with a Lightning that would love to have it and it would be interesting to do a longevity comparison (for the betterment of the L community). Besides, I've recommended 2 people your way for a chip in the last 3 months. And JL, you know I've recommended you too. No flames, please. Just thoughts.

 

Jim, a long time ago, I made a very detailed post about the cage vs. no cage debate. That post answers all the questions you ask. It was originally made on the SVTperf site, but it was reposted here, so you should be able to find it with a search.

 

gforce
It was good reading you post, you made a lot of good observations, engine balance being at the top of the list.

I would like to make another observation. The blower drive belt is the weakest link in that system. If you over power it or try to pull on it too hard..... it slips. It (the drive belt) is like a big shock absorber in the system.

The next weakest link IMHO is the balancer itself. Its a casting and has typical casting short comings. But I'm sure its plenty strong for what we're doing.

I think in the near future, peaple will find out how much power is missing in a slipping blower belt.
RTKilla just about gave Sal a heart attack when he anounced his new fully adjustable nonspring loaded bad boy belt tensioner.
He could be crazy or he could be ahead of his time.

Sorry to go off on a tangent, but I really enjoy this stuff
Dale

 

I really don't give much creedence to what kind of torque that pulley pulls up on the crankshaft. It's no where near the torque the #1 cylinder puts on it in the opposite direction whenever it fires and nobody thinks that is a problem.

 

Jim, bolt on the uncaged pulley. You will have no problems with it.
I know a couple of guys who have Vortech blown 5.0 Mustangs. One has about 130k miles on it, the other just over 100k. They have no crank or bearing problems to date. Both guys are running the high output kits (9 lbs). When you run those high output kits, you have to wrench a tremendous amount of tension on the belt. We hardly have to run any tension compared to them.

I might mention, that they have gotten very good at changing head gaskets, though.

Both are 5.0 engines, and have cast iron cranks and 2-bolt mains in them. We have forged cranks and skirted blocks with cross bolted mains in our trucks. It is my opinion, that we will not have a problem running uncaged pulleys. I am going to add Sal's pulley in a couple of weeks, after my IC is changed for the second time this year. I will run up a lot of miles in a hurry, and will probably be able to give you durability reports.

Are you ready for your Truck-Traks yet?

 

Ahhhhh, yes, the pulley battle continues!!!!j/k

gforce, I know you were just making comparisons on the different brands of pulleys, but my only concern is the over spinning of the blower. Trust me, I am all about power, but extra heat is generated with bigger diameters of aftermarket pulleys. I have the #2 pulley on my L now and I think it spins it to around 13,900, which is very close to the RPM limit Eaton put on these blowers.

I work in a profession where specs are the most important thing and if you go above or below them you are in BIG trouble, so I doubt the Eaton just pulled this number out of their a$$!! Take it for what its worth. If I see a new RPM spec on the blowers I will retract my statement.

As far as the cage battle is concerned, I stick with what gforce said in his statement: Surely Ford put it there for a reason. That is what I live by.

 

I was running the JL 3# pulley for a while. Put alot of miles on it.
Was able to check my rod bearings and they still look brand new even with 44 thousand miles. As for the blower it still looks fine inside. No peeling of the paint from the fins. Now I just have to fix the three broken rods ,broken piston and a huge hole in my block and pan. NOT pulley related, pulley is going on new motor.

 

How did you grenade your motor??

 

I'm running JL's new 4# lower and an ASP 1.5# upper with no issues so far w/ lot's of 1/4mile runs and some street time. With all the extra torque down low I have to run my Street ET's most of the time. It'll burn the Goodyears off at 1/4 throttle and keep burning at full throttle for just about as long as I stay into it. I don't believe extra blower heat is anymore of an issue with 3# additional boost vs. 5.5#. However, I think we have reached near the limit of the stock blower, without some additional modifications of course. The JL Powercooler definitely helps keep the temps down to make better use of the extra boost. I know of a few others who have a lot more miles on their trucks than I do with both pulleys.

By the way, the power these trucks produce before 3k rpm's is absolutely amazing! I have never owned a vehicle that has kept my interest for this long. If we could only lighten these babies up, mid 11's wouldn't be a problem on a stock motor with bolt-ons! How many other sports cars or trucks can say that? Even some supercars would have trouble touching these things in the 1/4mile.

 

gforce
If you ask me like you said that cage was put there becasue of the shear weight of the stock pulley. As for the non caged pulley there have been people running it since the 99 trucks and they havent had any signs of crankshaft bearing wear. And like you stated the cageless pulleys weigh like next to nothing compared to the stock ones even without the cage. I have been running my PSP lower pulley for over 5 months now and no problems here and the truck hasnt felt faster.
Vin

 

The main reason that cage is on the front of the motor is the stock pulley weights so much. I have installed the JL #3 pulley and it goes deep inside the factory pulley. I couldn't have any problems. Also for all the people who thinks the pulley with cage is stronger because of support and stress, why do Top Fuel Funny Cars and Top Fuel Dragsters making 6000hp not snapping aluminum pulleys off left and right. Just a though, I know our Lightnings are bad *** but they aren't quite that bad.

JL #3 pulley
JL chip
JL Ram Air
Electric Fan conversion
12.63 @ 107.71 on F1's

 

I just can't believe that Jim hasn't shipped that pulley to you yet. He has the best customer service out of all the tuners. Just ask all of his customers that ordered his pulley last year and didn't receive it until recently(and they paid up front!). I guessing that since you didn't pay anything you should probably get that pulley sometime next year, or maybe even as a Christmas present if you're lucky.

I was following your posts at the time over on SVTperformance...didn't you win that pulley on August 12th? Lets see...39 days and counting. Here's a suggestion for JDM don't promise something you don't have and can't deliver in a timely manner.

BTW, I have both upper and lower pullies soon to have a 4# lower with my upper and no problems. I've had the upper for about 7-8K miles and the lower for 4-5K miles.

 

easterisland
Would you consider your truck a daily driver or as just a weekend driver??
When i say daily driver to me that means taking the truck out when its nice weather and using it to go to work but if it looks like rain or forcasted to rain i dont take her out. I dont drive her everday to work even somedays when it is nice out. Just dont fell like having to move 2 cars to get her out of the garage at like 7 in the morning on my way to work. I have almost 13,000 miles on her and she is a 00 and i was wondering if you use the truck like i have stated above how save is it to run the upper and lower pulley? Also how hard is the install of the upper pulley ive heard where people have to grind the snout off the charger to get the stock pulley?? Any chip reburns needed for the upper pulley. Any info would be great.
Thanks
Vin

P.S. easterisland
If you havent already post on the Visit to JDM post like i said to if you got *****ed over by JDM.

 

I didn't have the chip reburned for the upper pulley.
I bought the pulley from mark uni4money@aol.com
It is the Metco interchangeable one. No grinding. You can take it on and off in 1 minute. Took about 45 minutes to install.

I haven't had any problems with running both pullies. I have almost 15K miles on my truck since I bought it 4/28/01. I use the truck in my business and I commute about 130 miles per day. I sometimes drive my GMC sierra but the Lightning is just too much fun. I will remove the smaller upper pulley and replace it with the stock size when I tow. I don't think it makes a big difference though. I'm going to have the JL 4# lower next week.

The power increase is incredible. I'm not worried about the hyped damage that could be caused maybe someday possibly...Sal wrote a great explaination of the pulley here a while back, I would recomend that everyone read it.

I have drove my truck in bad weather. I drove it yesterday when it was raining hard out. I had the topper on and some stuff in the back. Lets just say you must use restraint when pressing the gas pedal.

 

easterisland
Thanks for the info ill have to shoot him an e-mail. How much boost are you seeing now?? Currently i have the PSP 2# lower pulley with stock belt, Single Blade TB, Airriad with big mouth filter, PSP flip chip street and strip, Factory_Tech PSP Valve body, Bassani Cat-Back-System. With my mods i currently get 12-13 lbs on my autometer guage. How much boost would i see if i put the upper pulley on? Also i should be getting tommorrow my chip back from Sal with 90mm MAF, And today my BaBolt TB dont know if they will add anything. So how much boost did anyone see from the upper pulley and im guessing i would need a larger belt. If i do anyone know a part # for that belt??
Thanks
Vin