Since Lisa's post was made here in public and is still on this forum for all to see, it's only fair that I respond in the same place for the same people to see.

First of all, let me explain something about the whole filter situation. PSP was the first company to offer a filter kit for the Lightnings in 99. Airiad shortly followed and then JL and JDM followed after that. The original PSP filter kit was a fabricated intake tube, with integral mount and a 9" PowerStack filter on the end of it. The angle of the tube, and the placement of the IAT sensor, were tried in various forms until the best performance combination was found. EVERY single owner was more than happy with the performance gain, and I never had ONE person say they LOST peformance over the stock airbox.

I continued to build these kits in this form, until JDM and JL came out with thier own filter kits. At that point, since they were offering 12" filters instead of my 9", nobody wanted a 9" filter when they could have a 12" filter. I was forced to change my filter kit to use a MAF adapter and a 12" filter, to be similar to what JDM and JL were offering.

I had several customers test both kits agianst each other, and the 9" PSP tube system outperformed the 12" setup everytime. I even told customers this who asked about it, yet people still were not willing to use a 9" filter when they could buy a 12". But now everywhere you turn, you see people complaining about lost performance with 12" filter setups, and backing that up with legitimate data. Yet people still buy them.

Mass air meters and intake systems are sort of a "Black Art" in this business. There are very few people who know the do's and don'ts of mass air. People think that you need a tube that matches the inlet of the meter, just because another vendor said you do. But that's not the whole truth. MAF sensors need the proper velocity of air flowing through them, to work properly. If you look at the shape of the meter, it has a larger inlet, that tapers to the main bore. The reason for this is because when used with a filter directly on the end of the meter, there is no airstream, just an open chamber. There is no velocity of airflow coming into the meter. So the meter is tapered to try to build velocity into the meter. When you use an intake tube on the inlet side of the meter, you now have an airstream already present. Since the bore of the meter is much smaller than the inlet size, as long as your intake tube to the meter is not smaller than the meter bore, there is no affect of having a tube smaller than the meter. With the smaller tube, you have more velocity of air flow into the meter, and this increases performance. Our old filter kit tubes were 6 1/2" long. So you have 6.5" of tube to build up air velocity, as opposed to the taper on the meter which is about 2" long, and has to convert open plenum air into velocity in 2". This is why our old filter kits worked better, and people are not as happy with the 12" setups. When I put the 90mm MAF on our 99 test truck, we used the old style PSP filter kit on, and the truck made 410rwhp that way. I'd say that's pretty good for "just" a 9" filter.

As for you Lisa, yes I spoke to you (or Kevin) on AOL. It was not "over two weeks ago", it was last Tuesday, and after you guys asked if you could talk about it over the phone, I said sure, just give me a call after 6 and you said ok. I left the line open for your call, and you did not call until the following night, when I was not here. In Spiro's absence I have been trying to keep up with all the people trying to contact us, which is why I have not been able to get back to you yet.

 

Guys remember these are filters we are talking about.

Sal, on the serious side why would a 9" filter give better performance over a 12" filter? Common sense would say the bigger the filter the more air it could draw in, which would give better performance.

 

'Oblivious:

We're not just talking about the filter. Re-read the post. The discussion centers on the filter-tube-MAF system as a whole. Longer filter means shorter tube (real estate concerns) means (differnet) flow conditions in the MAF.

My somewhat extensive background in fluid mechanics leads me to believe that this is an issue of having "fully developed flow" in the MAF, which will require several "pipe" (MAF) diameters of smooth tube before the meter. Random, "dirty", tumbling flow in the MAF should and will lead to erratic readings across a range of flow velocities (really, different Reynolds Numbers).

If you really want to screw things up, remove all of your intake upstream of the MAF, stretch a nylon stocking across the mouth of the thing, and let her rip. The SHOULD produce the absolute maximum power (no restriction WHATSOEVER upstream of the MAF), but it won't...

 

Interesting question, 9" filter vs. 12" filter?

Sal, I'm glad you brought this issue up because I have a 12" kit (JL) myself and had no idea that the 9" filter with your intake tube actually worked better...

What a tough customer base

 

Sal is GOD!!!!! Crap, now I am going to have to get the 9" filter.

 

Is this the only instance where 9" is better than 12"?

Cool...

 

Then how would my custom intake work sal.

I got a 4 inch pipe thats about 2 foot long in front of my mass air meter.

 

RTKILLA>
I thought the 4" pipe was behind your mass air meter ?
-----------
Rick

 

Ah yes, the tube. Now it makes sense. Limited space in engine compartment = (shorter tube + longer filter) OR (longer tube + shorter filter)

Thanks for the clarification

 

Here is a shot of the 80mm and 90mm but it's from the backside not the side that connects to the filter.

 

Captain, it's not the size of the filter that made the 9" set up work better, it's the design on the system. Logic says a larger filter flows more air. But testing has shown that there is no gain in power by going from the 9" to the 12", meaning the 9" filter setup we used to use did not need to be improved upon.

DB, I'm trying to start a filter brand war . Remember, my current filter kits use the 12" filter, but only to meet the demands of what people wanted.

D_Coburn, too late, your new filter kit is already packed up and shipping out in the morning

RTKilla, it's not a matter of inlet diameter in your case. You have an ample supply of intake tube BEFORE your meter, so you are still building intake velocity. Your original setup had your meter right after the filter in the wheelwell, and that is why I suggested you change it to your current configuration.

 

Sal and DB - thanks, that make much more sense

 

Quoted From Lightning Lisa:

customer service at PSP ????????

{Hey, sal back in march when we offered you our 90 mm maf of our new 2001 and you took us up on it, we unbolted it of our truck and sent it to you for about 3 weeks so you could find out if your 99,00 filter kit would work on the 2001's and some other testing you wanted to do, you told us that your filter kit fit fine and would work. We said great send us a filter kit along with a shift kit and pulley and you did, BUT later when we got a hold of you and said that the kit was 3.5 inches and the 90mm maf for the 2001 was 4 inches and didn't match up you told us it would work fine because the center of the 90mm maf was 3.5 inches not to worry about it. Thats when we told you we would still like to have the 4 inch filter kit when you got some made, you told us you would exchange it when you got some made up . So we thought we would here from you when you got some done and gave it no more thought then, we remembered that we have not heard from you, thats when we started to e-mail you to find out if you had them done or not but did not hear back from you. so we e-mailed a few more time STILL NO REPLY !!!! about two weeks ago we caught you on Instant Messenger and questioned you on the filter kits and you DOWN PLAY US AND TOLD US THE KIT FOR THE 99,00 YOU SENT US WAS JUST FINE FOR OUR 2001 !! ( WHICH IS BULL$**T ) After you realized we were not happy with that answer you finally said we could exchange it BUT I HAVE TO CHARGE YOU $45 DOLLERS FOR A FILTER SO I CAN RESELL THE KIT (WHICH IS BULL$**T ) so my QUESTION IS THIS WHY ARE YOU TELLING Ebbsnflows IF HE PUT A 90 MM MAF ON HIS 2000 ( and i quote) "You'll need a different filter setup " ? DID YOU JUST TELL US THAT THE 99,00 KIT WAS FINE TO BLOW US OF OR WHAT ? WAS IT THAT YOU DIDN'T WANT TO MAKE GOOD ON THE EXCHANGE OR WHAT ? (WHICH IS HOW WE FEEL) WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE ANWSER TO THIS AND IAM SURE THAT Ebbsnflows WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ALSO BECAUSE HE WOULD LIKE TO BUY OUR 99,00 KIT THAT WE POSTED FOR SALE ON A DIFFERENT WEB SITE. we do not want to sell it to him if he's gone to get a 90mm maf because we feel he should get the kit for the 90 mm (we are not like you , don't want to tell him that it will be ok just for the sake of the sale!!!) SO BE A MAN AND DESIDE IF THE 99,00 KIT WORKS OK ON THE 2001 90MM MAF (LIKE YOU TOLD US ) OR IF YOU NEED A DIFFERENT FILTER KIT TO WORK ON THE 90 MM MAF ( LIKE YOU TOLD Ebbsnflows IN HIS POST?????
Sal you still need to work on your customer service or at least be honest with ALL your customers one or the other but we would like to say that if you were honest we're sure that your customer service would follow!!!!!!!
We would like a honest reply from you thanks kevin and lisa
P.S. would also like to let you know there was another reason we were trying to get a hold of you other than the exchange and that was to order a chip BUT thanks to your customer service thats why we are HAPPY to inform that we are now SPORTING a brand new JDM flip chip in our 2001 ( have a nice day)}


Sal I think you missed Lisa's point. The reason why Lisa is upset is because you told her that your 99-00 Filter kits (80mm mafs 3.5 inch tube) would work on her 01 (90mm mafs 4.0 inch tube) when this is clearly not the case. Yes the kit will bolt up but you are not gaining any additional air flow because the 3.5 inch filter tube is smaller than the 4 inch 90mm mafs on the 01's.

 

Hankfan, I did not miss Lisa's point, you missed my point. The filter kit that Lisa has will work pefectly fine with that meter. That setup should work better than what she wants to exchange it for. I did not say that I would "not" swap it for her. But since there is nothing wrong with it, all I asked was they pay for a new filter for it, in exchange for a complete new design kit. That was the kit I was selling for the 01s at first until I changed the kits a few months later. If I didn't think that kit would perform as it should, I would have not sold it to them, and would have immediately came out with a larger tube kit. As I stated before, that same filter kit worked with the 90mm on our 99, and dnyo testing and track testing showed no loss of performance with the old style kit.

 

Whoa......back up the truck here

Sal, does the older kit make more power or does the new kit. It sounds like you are saying the older one is the way to go, I have your newer style with the 12" filter and if the other makes more power I want that.

So let me know, do you still make the other kit or just the new one and why not make the other one for more power. What do you run on your truck? I want the most power and could care less about the sizes of this or that, to me it is all about power and I think I am an addict .

I am really curious if the other setup made more power, I would be interested in maybe getting that, also how is the fastair system coming, since we are on the topic of air flow would that also work better with a 9" filter instead.

I am just full of questions.

Paul