...I will give you your optimum shift points (although almost every lightning even modded will need to be shifted as high as possible w/out blowing the motor, which means 5600 or higher in ALL gears).

I'm LOOKING for Dyno CHARTS, not graphs (basically, I want the #'s breakdown as seen here from Seattlesnake's run:



HERE is what I ultimately need. I need runs shown from as LOW as possible to as HIGH as possible, in the ranges of 2800 up to 6000. #'s starting out higher than 2800 is not going to do much for me in the figuring part. We obviously already realize from what I said at the top that we need to shift higher, but for all out mathematical purposes I still want the #'s starting around 2800 please (even lower would be fine too).

EVEN if these runs are in 2nd gear that is fine too, since the optimal shift points will not change.

I will break ALL the #'s down line item style for you all and I will post back for everyone to see and explain. This way you all will be able to understand why on a Lightning we need to go HIGH HIGH HIGH when we shift.

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-24-2001).]

 

Just to give you all an example, I've done one up for Seattlesnake, but his #'s do not leave me w/ much for figuring. But if you take his last gear change (3rd to 4th) you will then understand that for EVERY gear shifting as HIGH as possible (i.e. let's use 5500 for max) will net you the best times possible, or the best race possible. It can't get any more simpler than this.

The theory behind these calculations is that you always want to be
in the gear with the highest horsepower, as at any given speed that will
provide the most rear wheel torque. Or explained easier, the trick is to minimize the change in momentum, so you pick the rpm that changes the least in hp when you shift. You can do this for torque as well and this will get the EXACT same shift points as the "when the shaft torque is the same before and after the shift" because it's the same thing, the HP just takes care of the whole gearing & torque thing for you so you don't have to do the math. (Thanks to Andi for help on this, www.boostaholic.com )

Terms used:

bRPM = before shift RPM
aRPM = after shift RPM
bHP = before shift HP
aHP = after shift HP

[code]1st (2.71) to 2nd (1.53) gear change

bRPM aRPM bHP aHP
5600 3162 ? ?
5500 3105 330 ?
5400 3049 339 ?
5300 2992 339 ?
5200 2936 336 ?
5100 2879 339 ?
5000 2823 340 ?


2nd (1.53) to 3rd (1.00) gear change

bRPM aRPM bHP aHP
5600 3660 ? 295
5500 3595 330 286
5400 3529 339 277
5300 3464 339 ?
5200 3399 336 ?
5100 3333 339 ?
5000 3268 340 ?


3rd (1.00) to 4th (0.71) gear change

bRPM aRPm bHP aHP
5600 3976 ? 312
5500 3905 330 307
5400 3834 339 301
5300 3763 339 298
5200 3692 336 295
5100 3621 339 286
5000 3550 340 282[/code]

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-24-2001).]

 

okay.. here ya go.




brooks

[This message has been edited by clonetek (edited 06-24-2001).]

 

Brooks (clonetek), if I broke them down they are going to look even worse than those of seattlesnake. Yours will have ALL "?"-marks Your rpm's do not go low enough. The only gear in which you have shifts spread close enough to the previous rpm before is OD (4th) and even at 5600 your after shift rpm from 3rd to 4th is 3976, and your chart starts at 4100. See what I mean?

That's why a 2nd gear run would be able to measure it from just off idle all the way up to shutdown. I'll go have my new BONE stock '01 dynoed tomorrow in 2nd and then shifting into 3rd so we can get all these #'s. Hmmm, the only problem is that we will not be able to tell my upper #'s, since my stock PCM will shut down the rpm after 5200 . Damn, I may just need to order a chip from Sal, and have him send me another eprom that ONLY raises rpm limits and NOTHING else. Dyno that, then dyno the performance chip he sends me. Then again, hmmm, it wouldn't matter, it would be the same % wise even if I only dynoed a performance chip, DUH!

Someone has to have these #'s

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-24-2001).]

 

we did the dyno run with overdrive off.. it topped out in 3rd gear.

brooks

 

SWEET, I did a search and guess what?

PFA has a chart starting at 3100! Here it is:



I'll brb w/ the #'s and explanations again!

Well, hell, now that I think about it I need 2800 and higher. Drats! At least I can fill in some blanks.

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-24-2001).]

 

PFA if you're there, here's your optimal shift points (note, I still couldn't get sufficient info. for your 1st gear to 2nd gear change, but remember, it's obvious you need to be shifting as high as able in 1st, as well as 2nd and 3rd).

One other thing to take notice to is that I rounded some hp #'s on the before/after hp shift when they came too close w/in each other for each 100rpm change.

[code]Terms used:


bRPM = before shift RPM
aRPM = after shift RPM
bHP = before shift HP
aHP = after shift HP


1st (2.71) to 2nd (1.53) gear change

bRPM aRPM bHP aHP
5600 3162 312 253
5500 3105 334 ?
5400 3049 344 ?
5300 2992 349 ?
5200 2936 349 ?
5100 2879 349 ?
5000 2823 352 ?


2nd (1.53) to 3rd (1.00) gear change

bRPM aRPM bHP aHP
5600 3660 312 297
5500 3595 334 290
5400 3529 344 283
5300 3464 349 289
5200 3399 349 274
5100 3333 349 266
5000 3268 352 259


3rd (1.00) to 4th (0.71) gear change

bRPM aRPm bHP aHP
5600 3976 312 317
5500 3905 334 312
5400 3834 344 304
5300 3763 349 301
5200 3692 349 297
5100 3621 349 290
5000 3550 352 287[/code]

I'm still looking for a breakdown that starts at 2800 or sooner, please.

I'll also do one for my '96 Mystic Cobra I had and my '95 Vette so we call can understand this proven theory even better.

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-24-2001).]

 

ttt

 

Nonsense info. How many Lightning guys do you think shift their L's manually? You can't compared a stick Cobra to an A4 L.. especially with a blower that is about tached out already....nuff said.. thanks for trying....I guess..

 

Nonsense info.? Your first post and that is all you can come up with? Who said I was comparing? I was informing that I wanted them to understand this proven theory on how the math breaks down and WORKS!

I would imagine that this info. is VERY wanted out there regardless if it's an A4 or a Cobra. I'm trying to show EVERYONE how to do this for ANY of their cars.

Take Andi's Supra for instance:

http://www.boostaholic.com/supra/shiftpoints.html

Last, when adding in a CHIP this is the ONLY way to bypass the factory rev limiters, and in doing so one is able to have a vehicle that shifts ONLY at a specific rpm at WOT. It doesn't matter if you do it manually or not. The Gen2 Lightnings pretty much shift at the factory redline in 1st and 2nd at WOT (3rd is the exception if you do not turn OD off and manually push it when at redline), but we need to have them shift HIGHER as proven above. At 5500 we'll still be UNDER the 14000 rpm "super safe" blower limit w/ the stock pulley. I'm sure Sal and other well known tuners would agree from a performance standpoint.

From the factory, these trucks would run another .2 tenths in the 1/4 by just being able to shift at 5500. This is the BEST place to shift these trucks w/out overdoing the engine's limits and internals.

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-25-2001).]

 

1st or 500th does it matter? The increased rpm is only a benefit because you spin the blower faster. Like I said how many L owners really care about where too shift their L's? Maybe it would serve more people if you told them at what rpm they should flash their torque convertors with F1's. DR's or slicks.. This is America and people are free to post what they want even if it's useless info.. This is my second post now


------------------
Cold air,chipped and pullied

[This message has been edited by Bada$$Lightning (edited 06-25-2001).]

 

NOT true. The benefit (and I'm glad you admit that you realize this is a better shifting point) is because of the cross intersect of the hp/tq. It's PURE math, very simple, easily understood.

I.E. If another motor made the EXACT same hp/tq #'s throughout the EXACT same curves as the Lightning w/out the aid of a power adder (meaning N/A), then would you say the same thing? That's the way your mind is thinking. It has nothing to do w/ blower speed, it has everything to do w/ matching #'s.

I'm glad you're contributing to this board, as I think everyone should make a post as often as they can here. I do not represent F150Online, but I feel apart of the family here.

BfB

[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-25-2001).]

 

Ok your part of the family...

------------------
Cold air,chipped and pullied

 

As I was writing a post a light bulb went off over my head - I GET IT!, and agree. However, I do not have a dyno plot!

 

Has any additional light been shed on this captivating subject? I'm surprised how quickly this discussion fizzled out...

Related reading:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...hift+AND+point

https://www.f150online.com/forums/sh...threadid=84583