Blower rpm as engine increases
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,367
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Blower rpm as engine increases
The chip tuners I would think would know the answer to this question. At 5300 engine rpms....at 100 rpm increments what is the blower turning? Now the same numbers but with an overdrive pulley. I'm curious as to what my blower is now turning with a different drive pulley. If we knew the exact pulley diameters we could figure this out. thanks
------------------
99.5 Lightning
Gone but not forgotten
Silver 01...mods=a few..
hud@mc.net
------------------
99.5 Lightning
Gone but not forgotten
Silver 01...mods=a few..
hud@mc.net
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 648
Likes: 0
From: Milford, Ohio USA
This question has been asked several times recently, with no response in all cases. You're not going to get an answer.
Your best hope is for somebody to slap a caliper on both pulleys during a swap. Any takers? It would be nice to know the overdrive ratio.
Your best hope is for somebody to slap a caliper on both pulleys during a swap. Any takers? It would be nice to know the overdrive ratio.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
From: Downriver, Michigan
Somone may correct me about this; but, I do beleive the blower turns at a 2:1 ratio. So, if the crankshaft rotates 360 degrees, the blower rotates 720 degrees. If your tach shows 1000 rpms, the blower is doing 2000. If you add 100 more rpms to the motor, the blower adds 200 more.
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,367
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
I think the stock pulley is maybe a little more than 2 to 1 Badbolt. Like silver Y2K said someone needs to measure the diameters. Many people have thrown around a 14K critical number for the big Eaton. I think that number is a little conservative. I'm sure Sal or Spiro knows the answer...
------------------
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!
hud@mc.net
------------------
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!
hud@mc.net
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,303
Likes: 0
From: Chesapeake, VA USA
The stock pulley turns it at a 2.1:1 ratio.
------------------
Red '00 Lightning,
Power Surge Performance enhanced,
375 RWHP,
445 RWTQ,
12.974@104.818
Track Videos
------------------
Red '00 Lightning,
Power Surge Performance enhanced,
375 RWHP,
445 RWTQ,
12.974@104.818
Track Videos
Thread Starter
|
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,367
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
Thanks...
5250 (redline) x 2.1 = 11,025
5400 (fuel shutoff) x 2.1 = 11,340
Now does anyone know the overdrive pulley ratio? So it looks like we can go up to a 2.6 pulley (at fuel shutoff) and still be safe according to Eaton... I also believe their numbers are conservative..
------------------
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!
hud@mc.net
5250 (redline) x 2.1 = 11,025
5400 (fuel shutoff) x 2.1 = 11,340
Now does anyone know the overdrive pulley ratio? So it looks like we can go up to a 2.6 pulley (at fuel shutoff) and still be safe according to Eaton... I also believe their numbers are conservative..
------------------
DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!
hud@mc.net
Trending Topics
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 5,438
Likes: 1
From: Palm Coast, FL
I have no fear of answering this question 
I just missed the post. This should help a bit...
Crank pulley diameter/accy pulley diameter=pulley size ratio
Engine rpms X pulley ratio= accy RPM
So... stock Lightning blower speed is:
7.5 / 3 = 2.5 5300rpm x 2.5 = 13,250rpm blower speed
At 5500rpm x 2.5 = 13,750rpm blower speed
With PSP lower pulley:
8.0 / 3 = 2.6 5300rpm x 2.6 = 13,780rpm blower speed
At 5500rpm x 2.6 = 14,300
With PSP lower AND ASP upper:
8.0 / 2.78 = 2.87 5300rpm x 2.87 = 15,211rpm blower speed
At 5500rpm x 2.87 = 15,785rpm blower speed
Hopefully this answers all questions, and others, please ask
------------------
SAL - TEAM PSP
web- www.powersurgeperformance.net
E-mail sales@powersurgeperformance.net
tech@powersurgeperformance.net
F-150 Online Supporting Vendor
I just missed the post. This should help a bit...Crank pulley diameter/accy pulley diameter=pulley size ratio
Engine rpms X pulley ratio= accy RPM
So... stock Lightning blower speed is:
7.5 / 3 = 2.5 5300rpm x 2.5 = 13,250rpm blower speed
At 5500rpm x 2.5 = 13,750rpm blower speed
With PSP lower pulley:
8.0 / 3 = 2.6 5300rpm x 2.6 = 13,780rpm blower speed
At 5500rpm x 2.6 = 14,300
With PSP lower AND ASP upper:
8.0 / 2.78 = 2.87 5300rpm x 2.87 = 15,211rpm blower speed
At 5500rpm x 2.87 = 15,785rpm blower speed
Hopefully this answers all questions, and others, please ask
------------------
SAL - TEAM PSP
web- www.powersurgeperformance.net
E-mail sales@powersurgeperformance.net
tech@powersurgeperformance.net
F-150 Online Supporting Vendor
Banned For Rules Violations
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
From: Mobile, AL, USA
PRAISE JESUS! This one belongs in the FAQ! Also, Sal, you stated 5300. Any reason why? I thought redline was 5,250?
Dear ole dad, I thank you for not being lazy and posting and asking this. I've been wanting to, but you know how lazy I am.
2ndly, I can now shoot Magnumson's statement into the ground and make him seem like an idiot! I'll post it and Eaton's in a minute (personal emails they sent me a few weeks ago).
BfB
[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-20-2001).]
Dear ole dad, I thank you for not being lazy and posting and asking this. I've been wanting to, but you know how lazy I am.
2ndly, I can now shoot Magnumson's statement into the ground and make him seem like an idiot! I'll post it and Eaton's in a minute (personal emails they sent me a few weeks ago).
BfB
[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-20-2001).]
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 2,497
Likes: 0
From: EVERYWHERE
Guys..how long have I been saying that one pulley would be fine to do? of course they are going to tell you this.... LOL
How much more does my poor truck have to go through to prove this to you all...LOL
I have over 44k on the original motor and TRANS with at least 500 timeslips, not including the more recent ones from this month at DELMAR US DRAG 13... and going stronger than ever...and now I have the GO-GO JUICE
------------------
Spiro-THE"GREEK"
12.37 @ 110.15@ 4700lb w/out the Go-Go juice
11.94 @ 115.31@ 4700lb with 100 shot Go-Go juice
11.40 @ 113 @4700lb with 150 shot(on the brakes)NOT BACKED UP 4700 lbs.
Empty Pockets Racing DE-NJ
Sponsored by POWER SURGE PERFORMANCE
Sales@POWERSURGEPERFORMANCE.NET
MONDAYS,TUESDAYS,WEDNESDAYS,THURSDAYS
@ 302-335-3326 10 a.m.ET-6 p.m. ET
VISIT TEAM POWER SURGE
How much more does my poor truck have to go through to prove this to you all...LOL
I have over 44k on the original motor and TRANS with at least 500 timeslips, not including the more recent ones from this month at DELMAR US DRAG 13... and going stronger than ever...and now I have the GO-GO JUICE
------------------
Spiro-THE"GREEK"
12.37 @ 110.15@ 4700lb w/out the Go-Go juice
11.94 @ 115.31@ 4700lb with 100 shot Go-Go juice
11.40 @ 113 @4700lb with 150 shot(on the brakes)NOT BACKED UP 4700 lbs.
Empty Pockets Racing DE-NJ
Sponsored by POWER SURGE PERFORMANCE
Sales@POWERSURGEPERFORMANCE.NET
MONDAYS,TUESDAYS,WEDNESDAYS,THURSDAYS
@ 302-335-3326 10 a.m.ET-6 p.m. ET
VISIT TEAM POWER SURGE
Banned For Rules Violations
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
From: Mobile, AL, USA
Okay, here's the two emails:
(damn UBB bug!...fixed it in the re-edit!)
...and from Eaton:
Doh! I'll respond to this more in a bit!
BfB
[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-20-2001).]
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">James,
The maximum rated rpm of the M112 supercharger is 14,000. At max engine rpm
in a Lightning it will be spinning 14,000 rpm already. In our testing we
have sucessfully spun M90's faster than rated capacity and seen the
performance curves continue up at the same rate as below the 14,000 rpm
point. However, we have not done this high rpm testing on the M112. In
addition, the M112 has the same bore diameter as the M90 and the same inlet
port. It has a longer version of the same rotating group with the same
inlet geometry. As such, the M112 performance will fall off before the M90
does and we do not know how faster speeds will effect this longer rotor.
The bottom line is that we honestly do not know what will happen if you
overspin the M112. I know this sounds evasive but without testing this is
the truth. We have not had the available time to spend in developing a
higher output version of this supercharger, and one reason is that we do not
yet have a customer.
We do know that if you change blower speed it will no longer be emissions
legal. This does not mean that it will be "dirty", just that the current
emissions regulations specifically state that any change in relative speeds
requires testing and certification to be legal. You will technically have
to have your engine re-tested to be emissions legal.
Ed Tresback
Magnuson Products
Ph (805) 642-8833
e-mail ed@magnusonproducts.com
www.magnusonproducts.com</font>
The maximum rated rpm of the M112 supercharger is 14,000. At max engine rpm
in a Lightning it will be spinning 14,000 rpm already. In our testing we
have sucessfully spun M90's faster than rated capacity and seen the
performance curves continue up at the same rate as below the 14,000 rpm
point. However, we have not done this high rpm testing on the M112. In
addition, the M112 has the same bore diameter as the M90 and the same inlet
port. It has a longer version of the same rotating group with the same
inlet geometry. As such, the M112 performance will fall off before the M90
does and we do not know how faster speeds will effect this longer rotor.
The bottom line is that we honestly do not know what will happen if you
overspin the M112. I know this sounds evasive but without testing this is
the truth. We have not had the available time to spend in developing a
higher output version of this supercharger, and one reason is that we do not
yet have a customer.
We do know that if you change blower speed it will no longer be emissions
legal. This does not mean that it will be "dirty", just that the current
emissions regulations specifically state that any change in relative speeds
requires testing and certification to be legal. You will technically have
to have your engine re-tested to be emissions legal.
Ed Tresback
Magnuson Products
Ph (805) 642-8833
e-mail ed@magnusonproducts.com
www.magnusonproducts.com</font>
...and from Eaton:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">James,
There are no simple answers regarding your questions.
Regarding Eaton factory rotational speed rating: There is no "magic number"
rpm above which the supercharger will be destroyed; rather, as rpm is
increased, the supercharger reaches a point where its life is decreased
exponentially with increases in rpm (since the load goes up with the square
of the speed).
As far as increased boost and flow reaching a point where they make no
impact, this is an application-specific question since increases in boost
and/or flow also involve the engine management system. Since we are a
supercharger manufacturer and not a tuning shop, we have no test date
regarding increases in boost and flow over factory numbers.
My advice would be to wait and see what comes out on the market in the next
few months. There will be a super fix for these issues.
Feel free to post this information to the Web, but please reprint this email
unmodified and in its entirety.
Best regards,
Chris Weisberg
Technical Director
Magnuson Products</font>
There are no simple answers regarding your questions.
Regarding Eaton factory rotational speed rating: There is no "magic number"
rpm above which the supercharger will be destroyed; rather, as rpm is
increased, the supercharger reaches a point where its life is decreased
exponentially with increases in rpm (since the load goes up with the square
of the speed).
As far as increased boost and flow reaching a point where they make no
impact, this is an application-specific question since increases in boost
and/or flow also involve the engine management system. Since we are a
supercharger manufacturer and not a tuning shop, we have no test date
regarding increases in boost and flow over factory numbers.
My advice would be to wait and see what comes out on the market in the next
few months. There will be a super fix for these issues.
Feel free to post this information to the Web, but please reprint this email
unmodified and in its entirety.
Best regards,
Chris Weisberg
Technical Director
Magnuson Products</font>
BfB
[This message has been edited by BfB (edited 06-20-2001).]
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 5,438
Likes: 1
From: Palm Coast, FL
BfB, there is nothing new about what you are posting, that information was known over 2 years ago, when the Gen2s first came out. I actually did a lot of R&D on the subject, and wrote a few informative articles on it, and I have even changed my views as time went on and we got more real world experiance.
------------------
SAL - TEAM PSP
web- www.powersurgeperformance.net
E-mail sales@powersurgeperformance.net
tech@powersurgeperformance.net
F-150 Online Supporting Vendor
------------------
SAL - TEAM PSP
web- www.powersurgeperformance.net
E-mail sales@powersurgeperformance.net
tech@powersurgeperformance.net
F-150 Online Supporting Vendor
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,303
Likes: 0
From: Chesapeake, VA USA
Finally. An answer to my ignored e-mails.
------------------
Red '00 Lightning,
Power Surge Performance enhanced,
375 RWHP,
445 RWTQ,
12.974@104.818
Track Videos
------------------
Red '00 Lightning,
Power Surge Performance enhanced,
375 RWHP,
445 RWTQ,
12.974@104.818
Track Videos
Banned For Rules Violations
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
From: Mobile, AL, USA
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LightningTuner:
BfB, there is nothing new about what you are posting, that information was known over 2 years ago, when the Gen2s first came out. I actually did a lot of R&D on the subject, and wrote a few informative articles on it, and I have even changed my views as time went on and we got more real world experiance.
</font>
BfB, there is nothing new about what you are posting, that information was known over 2 years ago, when the Gen2s first came out. I actually did a lot of R&D on the subject, and wrote a few informative articles on it, and I have even changed my views as time went on and we got more real world experiance.
</font>
BfB