OK, look at it this way! How much calibrating do you think the SVT guys did to get the 3.73 to pass? The engine and trans calibrators had to do alot to pass that gear. That means they didn't use the full potential of the peramiters in the calibration.

If they didn't have the added improved air flow, they would have never passed CAFE with the 3.73. That is also why the 99-00's don't have a 3.73 gear. Their goal is to have performance and meet emissions and F/E.

You take a tuner that knows his stuff and gets into those peramiters, out goes the F/E and emissions, but in comes what the engineers had to leave out.

With more air flow and a de-tuned calibration. It will get better for the tuners. IMHO!

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2001 L. (Silver)
Born on date: 1/17/01
Received: 1/25/01

 

Blown5.4,

Ya that's the point I've been try to make for about 2 months now.

[This message has been edited by lgogether (edited 04-16-2001).]

 

Stop!

The trucks are the same, minus the MAF.

The chip calibrations that you bring up mean nothing.

When ford put 373's in then it's only a ~300 rpm difference for any given MPH. No secret hidden parameters that you speak of, just pull the A/F back a little.

If there is something messed up on the 01 calibration then a 99-00 will benefit as well, back to even again. To be honest there’s really not so much you can do engine performance wise with a chip, A/F and timing is about all. If you want to address particular EPA issues, well all Lightning chips are affected the same not just on an 01.

The truck doesn't show anything special on the dyno or the track compared to a 99-00 with a 90mm MAF and all else being equal.

 

They are not the same! Here is another point!
If calibration means nothing, why did Ford install new upper intake,exhaust and a re-flash of the calibration to meet 320hp When the cobra got nailed for being under power?.

You can say, pull some spark or add a little fuel. Just being able to read an A/F meter, doesn't make a person a tuner! You think the tuners are only hitting those peramiters. Do you know the reason why you can't put a 90mm MAF on a 99-00 without having a chip burned for it. Because the calibration is DIFFERENT!! A 99-00 PCM will not read a 90MM, like a 01 PCM. Why because the calibration has A different transfer function for the 90mm MAF.

As far as emissions and Fuel economy goes, 300RPM makes a difference on a truck with a 0.71 final drive on the trany. Their are too many variables to list when the truck is in the emissions lab on the chassis rolls doing city-highway combos with a 3.73 gear & trying to meet emissions at the same time & get max.hp & torque.

Do you think the engineers sitting in the trucks, while in the lab are only pulling spark and fuel. Those aren't the only peramiters they work with. The aftermarket chip changes all that! Do you think you are going to pass emissions if your state has smog testing with a chip installed on the PCM?

You can say it doesn't matter for what ever reason you believe. But, because I work in a calibration section at Ford! I know it does!!



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2001 L. (Silver)
Born on date: 1/17/01
Received: 1/25/01

 

Thor01,

Ok I can pick that post apart a million way to tomorrow, but whats the point.

The track speaks for it's self.

You and I have different opinions, neither of us is going to see the light of the others thoughts without exchanging mile long posts.

I think the point is mute any how, almost each and every truck will be modified soon enought, so we'll never really know if the lower intake was worth a poop.

In the end the fastest year truck will belong to the owner who has the most monies.

 

I can see that this topic is getting a bit heated, so let me put forward some information, that will hopefully help.

First, the difference between the 99-00 and 01 power wise, is the MAF, the intercooler core, the lower intake, and calibration. The blower is different too, but just the bolt pattern, it has no power effect.

Now, the intercooler is different, but the only difference is that it has one extra row of cooling tube. That's it. It's the same design, and yes, as much as I hate to say it, it's going to leak just like the older ones. Having 9 rows of cooling fins as opposed to 8 rows, is not going to give you a measurable power gain.

The 90mm MAF flows 47% more air than the 80mm, and yes this will help support FUTURE mods, but it's really only worth about 5hp on a stock 01. The air is still going through the same throttle body and upper intake.

The lower intake has been reshaped as well. The port design into the heads are different. But to really make a good judgement on if the intake is responsible for the extra 20hp, you have to know how it works. When the air enters the blower, it is compressed and then it comes out a small triangular opening in the bottom of the blower that is about 4 inches long and 2 inches wide. From there, that section between the blower and lower intake is shaped to slope the air across the top of the intercooler core. The air then enters the core, goes straight down through it and into the bottom of the lower intake. That's about a 10 inch drop straight down. Then the air must make a 90 degree turn and go 8 inches back up and make another 90 degree angle into the heads. While the redesign of the new lower intake helps this process, there's no way it's worth 20hp.

And then we have the calibration. Without going into any tuning secrets, in a nutshell all chip makers for the Lightning lean out the factory super rich calibration, and give the trucks more timing, and viola, you have a big power increase. The timing tables between the 99-00 and 01s are pretty much the same. The fuel tables between them are also close to the same, excpet for one important part. At WOT, Ford already leaned out the 01 calibration, pretty much to the point where most chips do. If I took a stock 99-00 and just changed the fuel to what the 01 has stock, you'd see a 20hp increase too.

As for the gears, everyone has their own opinion on that, but my experiance shows that most 99-00 owners gained nothing ET wise gong from 3.55s to 3.73s.

Hopefully this helps a bit. Obviously the more we test on 01s, the more we can unlock, but as for stock trucks, the 01s are not going to make huge amounts more power then the 99-00s like some may think. It's a pretty even playing field once you start modding them

------------------
SAL - TEAM PSP

 

I am glad to finally see a tuner say what many 99 and 00 L owners have been saying--a chip and a filter will not put the 01 Ls in the mid 12s. Without a doubt, the stock 01s are faster that the stock 99s and 00s, but with a chip, 90MM MAF and 373s the 99s, 00s, and 01s are basically the same truck "speed wise."

------------------
00 Silver L
3622 of 4966
JDM Flip Chip
90mm MAF

 

He shoots, he scores!

 

So Sal, my 01 will leak like my 99. 03 here I come. BTW hope you are off the crutch's. Nice to meet you at E-town.

------------------
2001 Silver Bolt...
Adopted 3/24/01...
Red Line Water Wetter... Wet Okole's... Bedrug... JL Ram Air...
Chipless in NJ

 

The current issue of MM&FF talks about the intake redesign. My baseline dyno was 355rwhp and 418 ft/lbs. I've seen 2000 L's on the same dyno only run 314hp.

The motors are obviously stronger as a result of SVT's development. If the fixed the intercooler with the redesign I will be a happy camper. I swear I will not even bitch about the front end clunk when I put in Herbs washers.

I posted this before reading Sal's post. I guess I better start looking at my intercooler levels. As far as my personal dyno observations; maybe the one truck was ***** and I got a good one.

I've heard most other 01's are 341-348. Aren't most 99-00's around 320. How much is the A/F vs. intake modifications is a good question.

[This message has been edited by NeedFourSpeed (edited 04-17-2001).]

 

I wish I would have looked at this sooner, I just traded in my 99 for a new red 2001 that I saw at the lot. Oh well, looks like I'm starting over.


HAHAHAH, ya right!!

 

Can you even compare 2 dyno runs together?

Mike from Superchips said that the type of dyno that they use shows about 40 less horse power then the ones we have been using?

Maybe that 314 one used a Superchip dyno?

 

My friend is an Engineer at Mustang Dyno in Akron Ohio and he always tells me that the DynoJet dynos are not accurate (they are always erring on the high side) Mustang dynos are calibrated much closer to the actual torque values. Because Mustang dynos give lower torque readings (and thus lower hp) they are not as popular with the performance crowd. Who would want to dyno at 320 hp when they could dyno at 360?



------------------
90 LX Mustang 5.0 w/ATI Dominator D1-B 14 psi
505 rwhp , 495 ft-lbs

2001 White Lightning (bone stock)

 

Thanks Sal, that post did clear up some question.

 

My numbers were from the same dyno; different days.

If Dynojets were that inaccurate then I doubt NASCAR would use them.