How many of you also own Generation II Vipers? I just added a new 2000 Black L to keep my Viper company. I think they mated last night. On another, more serious front,can you do WOT immediately or is moderation required during the L breakin period? The owner's manual is unclear. Thanks in advance for any info.

 

I think you have to show some moderation and do a suitable breakin period to adequately run-in the engine. I waited at least 20 miles before my first WOT burnout. Just my opinion.

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2000 Black Lightning, Snuglid
Custom Bed Carpet
Clear Corners, Lightning banner
Tinted Windows, Custom air intake
2" drop, VTech Taillight covers.
NLOC #377

See pics of '00BlackLightning at:
http://www.zing.com/album/?id=4294555843

 

bah... 20 miles eh, try about 3 miles after signing the papers, a Firebird tried to run me, he pulled up next to me dropped it to second & floored it (jezz thx for the warning) it was on... well for about 5 seconds then we ran into traffic.

So that was only with about a total of 10 miles on it. Although after that I did take t easy for the next hundred or so miles (to let it break in). FYI it will really start to get powerful after about 3k miles on it. Also hit the FAQ forum to read all about the goodies for your new baby!!!!

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99' Black (Wikd)SVT
best run 13.54 @ 101.35






[This message has been edited by Yoda (edited 09-20-2000).]

 

No Viper, but my silver 2000 L shares the garage with the Viper's arch nemesis, a '97 supercharged Saleen S351 speedster. A guy in my neighborhood has a gen 1 RT-10, but he's very evasive about lining them up (if you know what I mean). A GTS would make a much more interesting race though.....Here's to noisy, harsh-riding and completely unpractical cars!!!

 

I went WOT thru 2 gears on the test drive. uummm make that the 2nd test drive, the 1st one I had a totaly paranoid lady sales person, holding the dash once it hit 30MPH. that was funny! that was in a different L. I took mine to the track with 300 miles. Just drive it like you stole it! Lloyd

 

...yes, I have Vipers...for lunch. I've "half-tracked" several GTS's at the local drag strip (not with my L, of course). They only ran 12.2x @ 118 or so, so I realize they were stock or near stock.

Not knocking your garage. I think Vipers are awesome cars, and you can get your hands dirty and have a Viper that is very, very streetable that runs low-10s. I've seen several that runs 9s, but have enough compromises to not be considered real street cars (at least by my definition).

So, since the Viper and L "mated" the other night, what do you think will show up in 9 months?

Glad to have you here! Good luck with your great vehicles!

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Wes Tarbox
90 LX 5.0 (10.69 @ 134.7)--597rwhp/590rwtq
96 Cobra (12.34 @ 115.8)--392rwhp/433rwtq
99 Lightning (13.20 @ 103.8)--364rwhp/444rwtq
00 Expedition XLT 5.4 http://members.aol.com/Wa2fst/index.html



[This message has been edited by WA 2 FST (edited 09-20-2000).]

 

69Bossnine,


I'm not sure if I'd really say that a Saleen is the Vipers arch nemesis. I guess neither really have a lot of history, but I don't see a real hard core grudge match going on between them either.

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2000 Red Lightning
(no mods yet...just got it)
95 Saleen S-351 Convertible/Triple Black
97 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic

 

I'd think the only real true competition for the Viper (size, HP, ect.. but not price) is the Corvette
They have the same basic shape and what not.. just as usual.. Dodge puts the biggest motor in their cars.. and jacks the price wayyyy up...
Hell.. low 12's stock? (mind you Dodge makes this, not a person/company like Saleen)
I'm sure that Hennasy (sp?) dood can make a viper out run that Saleen... after all.. saleen does his work to cars, as does that H dood..

 

Hey Dodge guys,

No one is saying the Viper isn't cool...it is. Low-12s from a car with 488cubes isn't rocket science, though, so don't make it more than it is.

The supercharged 351 Saleen will certainly outrun a stock or near stock Viper in a stoplight derby...assuming it is tuned right. I still can't figure out why they claim only 500bhp from a 10psi blown 351W. In the hands of a responsible tuner it will make a LOT more power than that.

This is not a "mine is bigger than yours" contest. I'm just saying that what I have in my garage I will hand it to 95% of the Vipers out there...and I built and tuned it myself, and its as reliable as a stone. Then again, if a Viper owner built a blower/turbo motor it would be one bad machine.

Sometimes I wonder if there's anyone on this board who turns wrenches themselves.

Hennessey does some neat stuff, as does Lingenfelter, but my suggestion is to buy the parts and install it all yourself. That way when something goes wrong, you can fix it, too.

Would I like to have one? ABSOLUTELY!! From an "outsider's" perspective, the Viper is the ultimate modern day American roadster/sports car. I would NOT put the Vette in its class. That would be lowering oneself. The Vette is a nice car, and the new Z06 is very fast and refined, but the Viper is just pure unadulterated muscle in a package with killer looks. The Viper crushes the Vette and the '01 Cobra R in acceleration tests and it laps faster around a road course. I don't know about top speed, and I don't care b/c I have no place to use that type of performance data.

Cruising the streets, going to the race track, or sipping *tea* at a car show, you'd be looking good pulling up in a Viper GTS. And this coming straight from a blue-blooded Ford man.

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Wes Tarbox
90 LX 5.0 (10.69 @ 134.7)--597rwhp/590rwtq
96 Cobra (12.34 @ 115.8)--392rwhp/433rwtq
99 Lightning (13.20 @ 103.8)--364rwhp/444rwtq
00 Expedition XLT 5.4 http://members.aol.com/Wa2fst/index.html



[This message has been edited by WA 2 FST (edited 09-20-2000).]

 

I agree 100% about making modifications your self...
You know what you did, and how you did it...
No wondering on that =-)

I'm sure you know I'm a Dodge maniac.. and I respect Ford, and Chevy...
I just dont have much for the Imports... (ie, Civics, ect...) I guess its my upraising that does that.. dad dont like'um, I dont like them.. =)
My dad dosent like Ford at all... I like some Ford stuff... (after all, I wouldent have joined for no reason =)

 

Steve Saleen certainly pinpoints the Viper as his #1 target with the S351, plus they're priced similarly, plus about a year ago Car & Driver did a 0-140 mph issue in which the Saleen accomplished the run a touch faster than a stock Viper to which they made direct comment of. Saleen will evil-eye you if you call him a tuner like Hennessey, he's real touchy about that. It is true though that his cars ARE sold through Ford dealerships, with a Ford new car warranty, as NEW cars. With all the other guys, you have to buy the car and they "tune" it from there. So, I've always considered the Saleens as "factory" pieces (just like Shelbys were), and if you sent one off to have the heads worked and the boost dialed up, THEN you would have a tuner-car. I never intended a "mine is bigger than yours" scenario (who really cares), just a little Ford vs. Dodge teasing. I think that a good long pull with a GTS would just be a load of fun, no matter who gets sandblasted (don't you hate it when that happens?).

 

69Boss

I'm not saying that the viper and the Saleen aren't in a similair class...I'm just saying that I wouldn't consider one to be the arch nemesis of the other. Mustang and Camaro....now there you've got something.

The Viper is a FINE machine and I would love to get my hands on one sometime soon. As far as Saleen being a real manufacturer...well I disagree. Technically, yes he is considered a small volume manufacturer. However the warranty is garbage on the cars and Saleen does not stand behind anything. It's only a 1 year warrenty on Saleen installed components and as for the body work that they tack on, no warrenty at all for that kind of stuff.

Part of the problem is that you are building a $60,000 car out of one that starts at $15,000. But the bigger problem is Saleen's poor build quality (parts were missing on my car when I got it...and Saleen told me that is my problem!) and their COMPLETE lack of customer service.

In the end...I'd rather have a viper. In fact I'm looking to trade my saleen for an early RT/10. Back when it was true to the prototype with sidepipes and all.



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2000 Red Lightning
(no mods yet...just got it)
95 Saleen S-351 Convertible/Triple Black
97 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic

 

Sorry you had such a bad experience. Saleen is pretty flakey on the customer service end, but everything I've ever asked for (I broke a lug nut and also needed some replacement "S351 Supercharged" hood decals) they've sent to me free of charge, way past the warranty runout, without a hassle. My loaded 6-banger that I ordered to have the Saleen built from was half again more than 15 grand (just a point, not that it makes a huge difference). My car was delivered 100% complete and perfect. I've had ZERO problems in three years and 16,500 miles of ownership (with religious servicing done by myself), except for one. My A/C quit working at 14,000 miles 1 1/2 years outside of my warranty period). I simply took it into a clueless non-Saleen Ford dealer, where they typed the v.i.n. into their computer which still recognized the car as a 6-banger, and bingo, they honor the original 6-cyl Ford warranty and fix my A/C for free without question. Anyways, the car's been trouble free. From everything I've ever heard from Gen 1 RT/10 owners (like my neighbor), you could be in for a similar disappointment. Those early cars have an awful reputation for niggling problems/failures and bad chassis dynamics. The Gen II cars represent a HUGE leap forward. That's why you can buy the early RT/10's for so cheap right now. I'm a huge GTS fan, I like the style alot better. Every time I see an RT/10 driving down the road the driver's head is sticking out the top, and I think of David Hasselhoff in Hardcastle & McCormick driving that red p.o.s. "Coyote" with his head sticking out the top of it. But to each his own. Maybe you're shorter, where it'll never be an issue. I would look like a goofball in an RT/10, catching bugs in my teeth. Oh well. I never plan on selling my 351, it'll stay with me even after other toys replace it. It was the most insane and silly purchase I ever made, and because of that (and because it's paid for at last) I have a strong connection to it....even if it starts falling apart tomorrow!!

 

So, 69bossnine...

Have you ever had your Saleen down the 1/4mile? Just curious. I think they are beautiful cars, myself.

I'd like to get my hands on one to do some tuning. That engine is capable of over 600hp pretty easy.

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Wes Tarbox
90 LX 5.0 (10.69 @ 134.7)--597rwhp/590rwtq
96 Cobra (12.34 @ 115.8)--392rwhp/433rwtq
99 Lightning (13.20 @ 103.8)--364rwhp/444rwtq
00 Expedition XLT 5.4
http://members.aol.com/Wa2fst/index.html

 

Wow Boss...you are one of the lucky few. I have had nothing but problems with my car since the day I bought it. The ground clearance is so bad...you cannot get down a normal road, the inner wheel well piece was missing, others were cracked...the car spent 8 mos out of the 1st year of ownership in the shop. Nothing was ever fixed right (sometimes at all) on the car. Biggest peice of junk I have ever seen. Odd enough...now that the car is getting older, I havn't had any real problems (cept a few lingering ones that were never fixed). Thanks about the info about the RT/10's. Ill reconsider getting one. As far as the GTS goes...I cant stand it. Or any of the Gen II's. They took away the side pipes, added windows and door handles, and the awful random hood louveres...not to mention the wing on the back of the GTS. I just loved the simple crude but beautiful looks of the original. And I'm only 5'7" so I don't have to worry about my head sticking out.



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2000 Red Lightning
(no mods yet...just got it)
95 Saleen S-351 Convertible/Triple Black
97 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic