i'm sure all you lightning guys dont like me because i have a dakota r/t, and i know that the lightings are faster and i wouldnt be stupid enough to race one unless i had a blower, but this thread i had to say something, no offense to all you ford guys, but i hate ford, i hate gt's and cobra's, i never did like them, but when you guys start talking about cars such as my favorite car in the world the viper, and a beautiful car such as the saleen, i half to speak, though i hate ford i love those saleens, maybe because they look bad @$$ and the without a doubt are fast, i would take it over any camaro and maybe even over a corvette, i'm talkin about the supercharged saleens, they always turn my head, but all in all, i would take a GTS over any car, it looks amazing and it got ***** of steel, plus, even though i love dodge, dodge aint got no stinkin sports cars...my pick is the viper then the saleen..oh yeah, i really dont have hate for you lightnings, plus my friend,18 years old, just bought a 2000 silver lighting

 

VCA members are a tight group. Every one I know has done something to his or her Viper. The first change is usually smooth tubes and a K&N filter. Doug Levin in Fort Lauderdale, Fl installs Supercharger and NOS combos up to 1200Hp and the car is still streetable! The great thing about the Viper is that nothing else on the road even approaches its looks. Where ever we go inthe Viper, we get thumbs up, screaming children and people walking up to the car to say how nice it is. Back in 1983, I had a suped up Mustang 5.0 - white with a black stripe. It was nice and it was fast, but not unique. That's the problem with puting the $ into a Mustang. It will immediately loose value - just like the modified vettes.

 

Yeah, yeah...you're right. A Mustang is just a Mustang. However, anybody who purchases/modifies a car (certainly a late model car) as an investment needs to have their head examined. Oh, and you'd be shocked if I told you what my '90 LX appraised at recently. It's far from a tin can that has some performance parts slapped on it. Take a look at my webpage or pick up a Jan '00 issue of Super Ford.

Certainly the "wow" factor the Viper is as high as any car out there...at least for my tastes it is...I would never argue that!

I've seen several GTS's running slicks that bust half-shafts, etc at the strip. They forget that other parts besides the powerplant need improvement if you want to run with the big dogs.

I think that's awesome that Viper owners modify their cars. I know I wouldn't have one less than a week without doing something to make it more powerful than stock. I've seen some very streetable ones run low-10s at amazing trap speeds (like 140-145mph...good for low-9s if the suspension was set up to drag race). Haven't seen the ones that run 8s, which would be the 1200hp variety...at least not in person. But, that's not saying much. I'm sure they exist. How streetable they _really_ are is in the eye of the beholder.



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Wes Tarbox
90 LX 5.0 (10.69 @ 134.7)--597rwhp/590rwtq
96 Cobra (12.34 @ 115.8)--392rwhp/433rwtq
99 Lightning (13.20 @ 103.8)--364rwhp/444rwtq
00 Expedition XLT 5.4
http://members.aol.com/Wa2fst/index.html

 

95 S351, Ground clearance isn't any different than a Vette, or a Viper, or any sportscar I can think of....I've never had a problem. The '97 was the 1st year for a completely re-ingineered suspension for Saleen, so maybe your car acts differently than mine. I don't think twice about hitting backroads. Well, I dislike the original RT/10 for all the reasons you like it....no windows, poor looking when the roof is in place, and the V-10 sounds like two Honda v-tecs with fart-pipes when blowing through those side pipes, which when you're sitting in traffic choke you out with fumes, that you can't escape 'cause you've got no windows!! I guess I'm turning into a wuss over time, I used to never worry about such things. WA 2 FST, I've never 1/4'd my car, and it's for a # of reasons/excuses. 1. I simply burned out on going to the track before I bought the Saleen, so I don't exactly "yearn" to spend a perfectly good Friday night getting more time slips to add to my already-thick stack (used to have a '93 6-spd Vette that ran high 12's) 2. S351's have a 3,000 mile break-in period. 3. After break in it was summer, and you know how crappy blower cars run in 95 degree humid Florida heat, so I figured why bother 4. As cool weather rolled in the Fall of '98 I already had 9,000 miles on the car, and the Michelins were half gone and would spin violently through the 1st two gears and even in 3rd if you weren't careful. Again I thought, why bother. 4. Waited until this summer and 16,000 miles to buy new tires, so NOW I'm ready to stick and roll. It's still in the 90's and raining every afternoon down here, though. I'll wait a couple more months. Enough excuses??

 

69 Boss

NO GROUND CLEARANCE PROBLEMS???

WOW!!!!!! That is the biggest problem I and most other Saleen owners have. They must have totally redone the suspension. It is WAY lower than a vette (I had one...never had any probs) the saleen bottoms out going over the 1/2 inch lip into my garage. It bottoms out on potholes, on uneven surfaces...and I'm only talking about highways here. Would never even CONSIDER taking it onto a back road. Busted through 2 sets of catalytic converters because they kept smashing into the ground. I am currently looking for a good shop to raise the car. 1 inch of ground clearance may be good for a race car...but its useless on a street car.

I've driven many different sports cars before...the only car that ever had this prob was the Saleen. Maybe thats why I got the Lightning...its fast and I can still use it on normal roads.

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2000 Red Lightning
(no mods yet...just got it)
95 Saleen S-351 Convertible/Triple Black
97 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic

 

69bossnine,

You and I must be about the same age and/or had about the same experiences drag racing over the years. I read all of your "excuses" and every one of them is 100% legit, IMHO. I get to the track maybe twice a year now. Used to go all the time. Like you I don't care anything about 100^F evenings, beating my car to death, etc.

I was just curious about the track times is all. Glad you enjoy the car. That's what its ALL about.

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Wes Tarbox
90 LX 5.0 (10.69 @ 134.7)--597rwhp/590rwtq
96 Cobra (12.34 @ 115.8)--392rwhp/433rwtq
99 Lightning (13.20 @ 103.8)--364rwhp/444rwtq
00 Expedition XLT 5.4
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95 S351, Man, I haven't the slightest problem with that. It's your converters that are hitting?? I've scrubbed mine a couple of times going over speed bumps, but otherwise I'm good. I'm not near the car to get accurate, but I know I've got a solid 4-5" of clearance under there. My exhaust tucks up nice & neat. I also have the optional 18" speedline magnesium wheels (the 18 X 10's with 295 rubber on back looks soooo hot!), so there's some lift there. The '97's also run on different springs than the '95's, and use Bilstein struts. So it's apples & oranges I guess.

 

4 or 5 inches! WOW I would kill for that. I would be able to use it like a normal car...and not be afraid to take it out everywhere I go. I hope you fully appreciate that luxury. My exauhst is not tight at all. Either the X-brace or the cats hit all the time...can't get down any road without hitting something on the bottom. It's so nerve racking to drive...it takes all the fun right out of the car. I gotta watch for any minor imperfection in the road surface and swerve away from it. Maybe I should look into getting some '97 suspension bits.

I even brought the problem with Saleen, telling them that I'm sure it's not supposed to be this low. Their response...as usual..."Once it leaves our factory it's your problem". Even if their quality were to improve I would never buy anything from them again, because of their attitude towards their customers.

Congrats on the Mag wheels....those are really sweet looking. Did you get them color matched to the car?


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2000 Red Lightning
(no mods yet...just got it)
95 Saleen S-351 Convertible/Triple Black
97 Kawasaki Vulcan 800 Classic

 

Come On. ford had the ***** to put a supercharger on a truck. So when people say you have a supercharger and that is why your truck is fast, you say "your damn right". Well dodge had the ***** to put 488 cubic inches in a viper. off the show room floor what else goes low 12's, tops out at around 190 for under $100,000 ( not a vette or a saleen 351, i love them but they wont do it)You will have to spend at least 200,000 to buy something new to bet a viper. i am sure there are built up mustangs that will hang with it or bet it in the 1/4 mile but what ever you do shut it down after that.

 

i agree, people always tell me the only reason my dodge truck is fast is because of the 520 cu in v-10 and the novi blower and the nitrous and other stuff, because if i removed all of that stuff, they'd kick my ***. another guy said he'd race my lightning if i removed my blower belt to make it fair. fortunately i didn't have a belt tentioner tool on me, but told him i promised not to let the boost gauge go into the positive side, he didn't trust me so i gave him the lightning hand signal, and left. he looked confused.

 

I don't know what the 4WD Porsche 911 TT costs, but I believe it will equal or exceed the Viper's straightline performance and its not 200k...although it is more expensive than a Viper and I would take the Viper way before the Porsche (personal preference).

As far as there being Mustangs that will hang with it or beat it in the 1/4mile...there are tons of them that will absolutely smoke it. I'm talking a 300+' win in the 1/4 mile, and if the car is set up with Cobra/Vette brakes and a worked suspension then you CAN take them up way past that (assuming the owner didn't gear the car strictly for the 1/4 mile). Does that make it a better car than the Viper? No, of course not. To each his own, though.

True, there are only a handful of cars that would exceed its 190mph top-speed...but that's just for bragging rights unless you race Winston Cup.



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Wes Tarbox
90 LX 5.0 (10.69 @ 134.7)--597rwhp/590rwtq
96 Cobra (12.34 @ 115.8)--392rwhp/433rwtq
99 Lightning (13.20 @ 103.8)--364rwhp/444rwtq
00 Expedition XLT 5.4
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MRBBQMAN,

Those are some good stories. I once had some kid in a rice-rocket tell me that if I "cut my motor in half" he would kick my butt. I was in my LX and running high-10s that day. I said, "Son, you're wrong. If I cut my motor in half, so to speak, I'd have 300rwhp, which would be plenty to hand it to you." What a moron.

That's what is so cool about something like your big-block truck. You take the time to design and build a combination that rocks. Factory stock stuff is neat, but for _me_ its a lot more fun to tinker/tune the stuff myself and then go roast more than just the rear tires.

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Wes Tarbox
90 LX 5.0 (10.69 @ 134.7)--597rwhp/590rwtq
96 Cobra (12.34 @ 115.8)--392rwhp/433rwtq
99 Lightning (13.20 @ 103.8)--364rwhp/444rwtq
00 Expedition XLT 5.4
http://members.aol.com/Wa2fst/index.html

 

the porsche cost a least 30K more. buy a lightning and a viper or 1 porsche. the viper is not only quick (low twelves with street tires, not slicks or soft compound drag tires THE TIRES THAT CAME STOCK or at the very leat the ones you drive on most of the time) it is fast 190, it corners well and stops..ok. And last but not least.. the gawk factor. dont even tell me that does not matter to you. i had an 86 gt and now have an 11 second 89 firebird formula...no comparison to the viper in the looks department. i built, tune and installed the 383 in the firebird, if i had the money i would have bought the viper or would have had lingenfelter build me a vette!....someday

 

I am trying to get pics of both of mine up but I do not know how. can some one help me?

 

Brotherdave,

We're going round and round on this one. That's ok. To each his own. I won't discount anything you said. You've got your facts straight.

I didn't have $70k cash to buy a Viper back in '90 when I got out of college. I bought a Mustang and today as it sits, it is as pristine as any Viper you'll find, and it will whip it in anything except top-speed. I have more car show trophies than I can count...certainly it doesn't turn _as many_ heads as even a showroom stock Viper. But for those informed people who care about hot-rodding, it does. It's just a Mustang, though. I understand that. I'm not comparing some gutted out, clap trap, race car, though. It runs 11.4/134mph on the tires I drive it around on (which are radials, btw, not a DOT slick).

Like I said before...the Viper is an absolutely awesome car that does everything very well performance and looks-wise. I haven't spent enough time to know if the over-the-road ride quality is good enough to keep the driver from seeing a chiropractor, but I wouldn't really care.

Hope you get your Viper or your Lingenfelter twin-turbo Vette someday.

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Wes Tarbox
90 LX 5.0 (10.69 @ 134.7)--597rwhp/590rwtq
96 Cobra (12.34 @ 115.8)--392rwhp/433rwtq
99 Lightning (13.20 @ 103.8)--364rwhp/444rwtq
00 Expedition XLT 5.4
http://members.aol.com/Wa2fst/index.html