Lightning piston slap!

My piston slap symptoms are exactly like those described here by other members. Diesel like sound is a "perfect description", when cold start. "Rod knocking" is also a good description too. But for me, rod knock is a little higher pitched and clanking. This is definitely a deep solid low tone like thick heavy metal. Strike the side of the engine block with a steel hammer. I think that should produce the same sound that I am hearing. And too, my diesel sound is coming from down low in the block. It echoes out from underneath. Crawling under the engine it is much louder than from above.
Mine sounds like it is coming from the right bank.
Sounds like (1) piston hitting real good. There could be a second and third piston hitting too but to a lesser degree. I can't tell.
Quiets down after first signs of warm up while idling, (2-5) minutes.
It gets quieter the warmer it gets.
Sound and frequency remains after warm up but tends to blend into a whole engine vibration.
Not an annoying sound when warm, but noticeable and easier to recognize, especially after hearing the louder sound when cold.
After warm up my impression is that "if that sound could be removed this would be a very, very quiet engine".

The frequency of the knock increases and decreases with the engine RPMs, but the loudness does not change.

It had 85 miles on it the next morning when I went out to do the piston slap test.

Final assembly date 5/22/00. (I was told this date by the dealer).
Scheduled delivery date was 6/19/00.
My delivery date 6/22/00
Doorpost sticker: Build date 5/00.

Engine bar code sticker on left side valve cover:
461 3/31/00
000916430
9G250AA
Ford Windsor LVL Ont Canada

I don't know what all of the numbers on the engine sticker are, but this might be good info for someone.

When I picked up the L the engine was cool but not cold. I felt the intake. I knew it was run a couple of hours earlier. They washed it and put gas in it. Now, when I look back I am glade I didn't hear the slap. It would have been gut wrenching to have heard the slap and had to decide whether to walk away and leave the L on the lot. Then order another one for next year. And maybe get the slap in that one too. I don't know. But looking back I would have probably drove it off the lot fully knowing it slapped. It’s a nice truck.

Some of you here have terrible stores and experiences with the slap. It sounds like Ford has been fixing them one at a time. And getting one that slaps now or later is just the luck of the draw.

When I ordered the L I knew there was a risk. And when I picked the L up at the dealer I thought if it does slap Ford will replace the engine, so what the heck.

6/26/00 I took the L to the Peyton Cramer Ford Dealer in Torrance for the overnight sleep over. It had 370.9 miles on it. They did the morning cold start and heard the dieseling noise. Piston slap! They called the Ford engineer to get the green light before doing anything. 6/28/00 The Ford engineer called the dealer back and said he needed to check with the senior engineer.
6/29/00 The Ford engineer finally calls back with, “tell the customer to be patient”. “Ford is investigation the problem”. “Ford is not replacing any more engines until the problem can be fixed”. “A replacement engine could have the same problem”. “Your customer’s VIN number and problem has been recorded”. “We (Ford) will be contacting the customer with in the next few months”. “Driving with this condition should not be a problem”.

The dealer told me “if the noise gets to loud bring it back” and he’ll call the Ford engineer for advise.
6/29/00 I picked up the L and brought it home.

Well boys and girls there it is. I guess we can all speculate from there. Has Ford changed coarse on the piston slap or are they just jerking me around? I’ll just have to wait and see.

Sorry about the long letter.
I have been working on this ever since I got the L; it’s been part of my therapy. I was typing it in Microsoft Word waiting to see how the story ends before I posted it. But when I was told no more replacement engines, just sit tight, I thought this could be important news to the F-150 and Lightning community. Right now I can only hope that Ford well finally cough up a new piston. I think that might be worth waiting for.

MOB

 

I would go back and demand a new motor, or I would go to a differnt dealer. I would be pissed if I was in your shoes. That is what im saying

[This message has been edited by Burninout101 (edited 06-30-2000).]

 

MOB- You might have seen my replys about the same noise. I have the same problem you have, the nosie is the loudest under the car by the oil pan. I have over 1500 miles now but, I heard the noise with less then few hunderd miles. I haven't taken it to the dealer yet, because I'm not to happy with them (Service wise).

Dave

 

If you have the capability, would you please post a .wav file of the noise.

(What the heck did Burninout101 say?)

 

TO MOB:
Welcome (sadly) to the Bolt piston slap club. I know how you feel EXACTLY but dont know how to cheer you up! Our circumstances are dramatically similiar. Please see my prior and active post concerning having my engine replaced. Silver_2000 has graciously posted a pic of my soon to be installed NEW engine at his web site: http://www.svtlightnings.com/
The valve cover date on my current engine is 3/23/2000?. The replacement engine was ordered last week 3/20 and arrived at the dealer 3/27. Mine developed the problem at about 300 or so miles.
Your statement "Ford is not replacing any more engines until the problem can be fixed" is disturbing since my svt tech called the windsor plant; stated the slap problem, and then the plant promised to send the new engine asap. Either this is a totally new policy (in the last few days) OR someone is yanking your chain. Thank God we have this board to share information and help each other. My engine swap is scheduled for next week and when completed would be more than happy to scan the work order and send it to you. Furthermore can almost promise you that either ford detroit techs or corporate looks at our newsgroup everyday. Dont take any prisoners or turn your back.......

Georgia_Moon

 

I had a new engine replaced for slap on my 99 at about 15k miles. It actually started at about 1200. After around 600 miles the second engine started the same thing. I have avout 30,000 mi onthe L now so I am bringing it to a dealer to at least get the problem recorded. Im really interested to see what happens now. A third engine? or an updated fix? I havent done any upgrades do to this situation.

 

1qkpkup- Were is your noise the loudest, from under the car around the oil pan? Because that's were my noise(Diesel sound) is the loudest.

Dave

 

Thanks for the input.
I know I have a lot of company on piston slap issue. That makes me feel a little better. I have been reading all of postings here on the Lightning, the goods and bads.
And now that I have my Lightning I have been going back and rereading them again, especially the piston slap postings. With as many cases as I’ve seen here, not mention all of the others that might be out there, I think Ford could have redesigned and installed new pistons for less than what it has cost them so far in replacing engines.
Or even if the knocking turns out to be something else. I would think that Ford could fix a lot of stuff for the price of a whole engine and the swap.

I thought I would also be inline for a replacement engine. When I was told no more replacements, I wanted to believe that Ford was about to do the right thing, because it was costing them big money, the perfect motivator. But once again it could just be a smoke screen.
I have only been talking to the service writer so far. The service manager is out until Monday. Next week I plan to corner him in his office and see what he has to say. I don’t know if the service managers have any pull with Ford or if they get any of inside info. But I’ll see what he knows. For now, I’ll have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Actually I really hate dealing with the service people. They’re just a bunch of guys in the trenches doing a job. They put on a happy face, but they could care less about you, and even less about your car or truck. I really don’t trust them. When I listen to some of their excuses and explanations you can tell that some guys don’t believe it themselves. I think they are just passing on what they were told, even though you can tell they think it sounds corny too. But I’ll give them a chance for now. I have been real cool with all of the service people. No point in going ballistic yet in case the Ford fix turns out to be true. I’ll keep at it. I’ll let everyone know what happens.

MOB


[This message has been edited by MOB (edited 07-02-2000).]

 

Well guys my L has had the "noise" since about 600 miles and now I have 2200 miles. I brought it to the dealer and it sat there for 2 days, The dealership told me Ford said it was normal due to high compression. Sounds like BS to me, Anyways I still have the sound, a knocking low in the engine, louder by the oil pan, even after warm up. I got it documented and also sent Ford a letter voicing my concern. So I'm going to drive it for awhile longer and bring it in agian, see what happens.

------------------
2000 Silver Lightning
1999 Ford Explorer
1965 Ford Mustang



[This message has been edited by Silverstreak (edited 07-01-2000).]

 

dave sorry I didnt get back to you sooner. I was away.
Yes the noise in both engines was/is louder from underneath. sounds like an old Mercedes diesel. I hope they cime up with a real fix. Its isn"t just a lightning problem. It is a 5.4 problem. You would have thought that they would have fixed it when they specially assemble the L moters with the forged pistons and crank. Peter

 

Silverstreak,

BS!!!! Your dealership knows nothing!!! The Lightning is a low compression engine. 8.5:1 to be exact.

The service people don't know squat about the very automobiles they are suppose to support. When I took mine in for the "clunk"(the "clunk" coming back by the way)and problem with tranmission the shop foreman didn't even know what a Lightning was nor did he realize it was a Lightning till I told him during the test drive.

Mebbe it's time for a class action law suite against Ford. Too many are having problems.

Service at dealerships really suck!!

------------------
John Armstrong
2000 Red Lightning
** Chipped by Swanson Performance
** <A HREF="http://www.swansonperformance.com

" TARGET=_blank>http://www.swansonperformance.com

</A>

 

I don't post very often but I feel I might have a little experience on this. I had a 1999 Cobra that FMC gave me a 100% percent refund on towards the purchase of my L. I haven't had one problem with my L. KNOCK ON WOOD. Trust me I'm trying too. I feel like if I have a warranty I need to use it.

That said I feel you really need to talk to the service manager. You and your L are "just another vehicle", till you get noticed. When I came to pick up my Cobra after it's first of many visits to service it was filthy and had 150 extra miles on it. After my first meeting with the service manager things changed at the dealership I go to. My cobra was parked right out in front of his office window where he could keep an it, and it was always clean. Whenever the manager was walking anywhere in my vicinity on the service drive he came over and shook my hand. Pretty soon people I didn't know in the service department knew my name.

My point is you need to develop a relationship with the service manager. You own an exclusive vehicle, and you need the dealership to understand your expectations. As we all know, a lot of people don't know what a L is. Most people aren't as passionate about vehicle as us, thus they wouldn't know, or care, what the difference between a L and and an F-150 is.

I apologize about the long post, but it's up to you to get what you want. The only person at Ford who's going to help you is your new "friend", the service manager. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the input, from everybody.
I’m thinking up some different strategies. My first plan “A” is to stay cool and work with the dealer. I think we can all agree “you can get more flies with honey”. My plan “B” is to talk to Dan Swanson and get his advice. He lives real close to me. He did a chip for me years ago, on a Mustang. I had planned on getting his chip for the Lightning but not if the piston slap thing is hanging over my head.
My plan “C” is to talk with some other dealers and their service people to get some second opinions. I stopped by the Don Kott Lincoln/Mercury dealer but the service manager is out until Wednesday.
Right now I think I’m going to put all plans on hold until after the 4th of July holiday.
If anyone can think of a plan “D” or “E” let me know.
Happy holiday to everyone.
MOB

 

Does your slap occur all the time?

Every once in a while my engine sounds like a disel on startup for about 1-2 minutes, but it dosn't happen all the time, and it always goes away.

Daniel