A member posted a comparison between Mobil 1 and Redline oil. I asked Redline about this. Below is my letter to them and Redline's response:

>I read an analysis in Nutz n Bolts newsletter about synthetic oils. it said
>that Redline was clearly the best. Then I was on www.F150online.com in the
>Lightning message board. They were talking about a group purchase of
>Redline. Someone else referred us to a comparison of Redline and Mobil 1 at
>http://cjsupra.kendra.com/oil-spec.html
>This analysis seemed to show that Mobil 1 was better, especially for the
>price difference of the 2 oils. Any opinions on this analysis?
>
>Tom


We don't feel that spectrum analysis is a good comparative indicator of an
oils quality or protection, I am sure that Mobil would agree. We don't use
spectrum analysis comparisons in our publications as they can be flaky and
unrepeatable, the results vary widely. If these tests actually measured
engine wear, actual engine analysis could be discontinued and an oil would
be designed for good spectrum numbers. We use it as a monitoring device of
an oil over a long drain interval, this is typically what it is designed
for, fleet operators looking for coolant leaks, fuel injector problems and
catastrophic failures. We look for the oil maintaining good viscosity,
sufficient TBN level and reasonable wear levels. The levels seen in the
test are very small and of very small particles, a better indicator is to
actually count particle size and amount. Large wear particles that could
actually be considered harmful or indicate a failing component are not
seen. The initial higher level of metals seen with the Red Line are typical
of what we see and drop over time, these are a factor of the additives
used.

The Mobil 1 is a good product in a low to moderate stress application with
a frequent drain interval it will probably perform well.

It is interesting that the "virgin sample" showed 4 ppm lead, there is
actually 0, the aluminum shows 12ppm, it is actually 0, the silicon
(anti-foam) shows 32ppm is actually 15, the sodium 10ppm is 0, the
magnesium shows 420ppm is 0. These tests can confuse one component with
another and are not entirely accurate. The oxidation, nitration and sulfur
percentages are clearly wrong for the Red Line as we have found the test
confuses the esters in the oil with oxidation, they are looking for esters
in a petroleum oil that would indicate oxidation.

I don't think that based on these tests the Mobil 1 is a better product, a
good product but certainly not better.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil

 

Well, this is certainly interesting. I'm impressed that they took the time to answer. One thing that rings true is even Mobil told me they now recommend chaning their oil at shorter intervals because of the loss of or used up of additives. I will send the above to the aguy (Chris) that does the spectrum analysis and ask for a comment.
noelvm

 

I would be interested in what kind of "spectra" they used to analyzed the samples as there are several different types. I would be willing to bet it was either an Atomic Absorption Spectrophotometer (AA) or Inductively Coupled Plasma Atomic Emission Spectrophotometer (ICP-AES). Both instruments are very reliable and accurate. However, both have their weak elements. ICP is not very good with sodium, potassium, or any other elements in that "family" on the periodic table. But produces "better" results than AA in most other elements.
The fact they were vague in what type of spectra analysis used would make me wonder, as there are many types. ICP-AES is commonly used to detect wear metals in oils, which in turn indicates quality of an oil to some degree. As far as confusing two elements in a spectra of nearly any type is difficult unless analyzing elements of nearly the same atomic weight. Otherwise, each element has it's own "frequency range" characteristic to that element and that's independent of it being emission or absorption. Both methods have ASTM procedures for testing wear metals in oils.

ASTM also has procedures for testing sulfur, carbon, hydrogen, and nitrogen content in oils accurrately with different instruments. Sulfur is measured with a sulfur analyzer (the one I used was made by a company called "LECO") LECO also manufactures an instrument called (CHN-1000) which accurately detects Carbon, Hydrogen, and Nitrogen, which I've also used. We didn't experience any problems with these instruments getting "confused".

Just someting to consider....

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all4chem@aol.com
Y2K XLT Supercab Flareside, Oxford White, Medium Graphite, Captains Chairs, 6-Disc, 5.4L, 3.55LS, Tow Pkg, Block Heater, Sliding Glass, Keyless Entry, 5-Spoke Al Wheels, P235/70R-16 OWL Tires, Clear Corner Lenses, Eaglite Plasma Headlights, Al Striker Plates for the rear doors, Oxford White Lund Interceptor, Line-X Liner.
Ordered: 01-17-00
Built: 02-23-00
Delivered: 03-13-00

 

I am sure Redline is a fine, high quality oil. However, describing Mobil 1 as being good for low or medium use applications is rediculous. As I have previously stated, Mobil 1 0-30 is used in many top NASCAR stockcars (with <0-30 in qualifying motors!) It is good enough for Corvette and Porsche in their new engines. With Mercedes and BMW now playing games with oil change intervals (as much as 11,000 - 13,000) based on a computer's estimate of engine usage, 5000 - 8000 miles or every 6 - 12 months should be more than adequate for just about anyone. Pick a quality synthetic and go for it.

Zonaman

 

I sent Chris a copy of Redlines reply to his test. Here is his reply to their reply....and the beat goes on...........

Noel~

Sure... I guess I'll comment, although I don't really care here since talking to oil companies is a battle over propaganda BS usually...

I thought this might happen. I've talked to the chemical engineers over at Redline once or twice and they've always struck me as good guys. But if you want to simply see how a *particular* engine wears with a particular oil, then this seems like the best (and only) way to do it. I do like to check my TBN consistency and I love the fact that I can check head gasket integrity and injector functionality with each oil change.

And as far as them saying they can "formulate a better oil for engine wear"... jeez! Sure you can formulate an oil to wear better in various types of environments. Being an ME myself, I *do* know a little about this stuff. An ASTM 4-ball wear test is great, sure... but all engines have different types of wear and nothing ever fits the standardized test regime. Thus, seeing exactly how much wear you cause with a particular oil in *your* engine seems like the only way to get a final answer to this question. And I wasn't the only one since the Mustang guys came to the same conclusions with a different lab and with two separate 5.0L V8s. One of them has sworn to never put Redline in his car ever again after this interestingly enough...

Then there's their claims about the virgin sample. Well, my only guess is that they must have had slight contamination. I used a fresh, unopened bottle for the virgin sample. AND, I actually called Redline about the propensity of aluminum and they "said" that it was in there as a heat dissipant. So, once again, there are conflicting claims...

As far as the tests being flakey and unrepeatable... sure, I can see some variance, but as far as repeatability, my tests sure haven't wavered all that much... as you can see. If they were "flakey", don't you think it would show here?

Lastly, I wasn't all that crazy about the amount of Moly additive used in Redline... especially since I had all my bearings, pistons and cams dry-film lubed when I refreshed the motor... and excessive moly can tend to pull off that dry-film plus, in large amounts, can be abrasive.

Anyhow, I've been round and round in this stuff Noel and you'll never find an adequate answer from an unbiased source. This was my best attempt at providing some unbiased data. So my only advice is to take it and use it as you will... Also remember just how many *major* race teams (i.e., Penske for one), Nascar teams, LeMans teams (i.e., Porsche for one) and even NASA use Mobil-1. There's definitely testing that's gone on for those guys... irregardless of the money that I'm sure is funneling in from the oil companies as sponsors... especially for teams such as Porsche, where the company could afford to run the race itself, but still uses Mobil. Then there's the aftermarket tuners... like Calloway or Lingenfelter which recommend only Mobil in their "beasts". That definitely lends confindence :-)

My bottom line is that Mobil and Redline are both good oils, but I feel Mobil is better in my application. Until I get more, unbiased, conclusive data to sway me, I'm sticking with it for now.

-- Chris

 

I always love to throw monkey wrenches in this forum so here goes; I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Royal Purple oil. One would think that it is superior to either Mobile one or Red Line IMO. I would appreciate any comments.

 

Guys,
My first oil change is next week. I want someone to "tell" me what to use *grin*. Ok so I don't want you to just tell me, but provide me with some information quickly.

1: How many quarts?
2: Mobil 1 Synthetic (Which Weight or Grade)
3: What type of Filter & Where can I get it?

I don't see any problems going to synthetic at around 2,500-3,000 Miles. Anyone else disagree, or have an opinion on this?

I appreciate any information, and ideas here.

 

Hey Metallic Blue,

As you can see from my post above I'm highly biased towards Royal Purple. I changes to synthetic at 6000 miles, I'm not saying that you have to wait that long but I took baby steps, at 3000 miles I used that half and half casteroil(sp) and at 6000 I went to 10w-30 Royal Purple(I think Mobile 1 is 5w-30, not sure) with 7 quarts.

As far as the filter I think it was a Fram?!? I can't find it on the receipt, but I really think that the L idles and drives better, I could just be fooling myself after spending $10 a quart.

 

It only holds 6 quarts, if you put in 7 you overfilled it. FWIW, the owners manual tells you to use 5w-30. It has been pointed out here before that Ford has refused repairs on an engine in which 10w-30 was used.

------------------
Red '00 Lightning,
Adopted 4/19/00,
PSP Filter,
Sound effects provided by Flowmaster,
Track time pending...

 

Yo 4D THNDR is correct I got confused 5.7L or 6 quarts the .7 and $10 a quart = $70 dollars right! Wrong forgot to add filter and taxes, $10 x 6 + taxes and filter was about $73.

As far as 5w-30 verses 10w-30, I think 10w-30 is fine in Texas, but this is my choice.

I truly don't know about the warranty issues thou you could be totally correct, but isn't there this Magnesson issue that protects us?!? How could Ford prove when the Part/parts failed and what viscosity the oil should of been at?

 

f1car, you may have been taken on your Royal Purple! I buy it at NAPA in Austin for $5.35 per qt. Or you can buy on line for $64.20 per 12 qt. case.

Jerry

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Jerry Jordan
99.5 Red Hot Bolt
13.33 @ 101.94(stock F1 tires)
PSP filter and chip
(tire destroyer)
Impulse Lo-Pro bed cover
71 Cutlass conv.
Piper PA28-235
74 Suzuki TS185 (128 original miles)

 

Jerry you may be correct, I pay for convenience and not price at first. I'm sure I paid top dollar to find the product then I turned to cheapo mode, always one step behind but one step in front of 99.9999999999999999% of the rest

 

I don't think Ford can refuse an engine job based on either 10w30 or 5w30. The oil has to have the approved standards that Ford uses and thats it. Otherwise I think Ford would have to give ALL free oil changes.

 

Ford isn't telling you what brand to use, they are telling you what weight to use. If they told you only 5w-30 Ford oil, then yes they would have to supply it. If you used sraight 50 weight do you still think it would be warranteed? As far as them turning down warranty work on a woman who changed her oil every 3,000 miles with 10w-30 that was pretty well discussed here last summer. What you use is irrelevant to me. I just figured your warranty was relevant to you.

------------------
Red '00 Lightning,
Adopted 4/19/00,
PSP Filter,
Sound effects provided by Flowmaster,
Track time pending...

 

I don't use those Orange Fram oil filters. I have cut many of them apart and they are just the cheapest things on earth and you pay a good price for them. The anti-drainback valve is a lousy rubber and the end caps are made out of cardboard. I went with a Purolater Pure One oil filter. They have solid metal end caps, a better synthetic filtering media and a good drainback valve. This is just what I observed at least....Mobil 1 makes an excellent oil filter as well. The motorcraft one that I took apart was NOT a fram. It looked more like a WIX unit and it was also well made.

Paul G.