Whew, the other string is getting so long, it takes my poor computer all night to download it.....Anyway, MAD just wanted to share one thing with you concerning reaction times. I re-read your posts and agree with you on reaction times. I think too many of us want to "beat the clock" and lose sight of our ultimate goal, and that is wringing out the absolute best time from our rides, whatever they be. When I first got my truck, I posted information regarding videotaping my launches to see how it reacted to different launch methods. Some of the earlier members (on the jmartin board) thought that was pretty funny. However, it helped me, and that's all that matters. A perfect light with lots of wheel spin proves nothing, so I see (and agree) with your thoughts. It's too bad the string went sour, since I think there was some good information from both sides. Try again, just be careful not to cast dispursion too quickly. I think it would be a good idea for you to "team up" with a Lightning owner near you and test your thoughts and theories against the realities posed by the vehicle. Give it a try, heck we might all then know why they are so darn fast......

By the way, Ray I posted a reply to you on the end of the old string. Good luck with the new "L". You guys keep having so much fun, I might have to get another Lightning myself................................the guys on the Dodge boards are no fun at all.

------------------
Mark Swaim
1999 Lightning (sold)
1997 Cobra (deceased)
1998 Dodge Viper(yea, it's used, but it's still fast)
1993 Cadillac Allante (Sold, Finally..)

 

Thanks Mark..The only time a reaction time means anything to me is when you are trying to make it to the next round or match racing someone in a T&T night. BTW, my dragstrip partner drives and races his Lightning and I am very familiar with them. Bottom line as per my first post about the timeslips is I haven't seen a Lightning come close to the claimed times I have seen in some sigs here. The Lightning engine is no different than any other engine in that it all comes down to HP to weight ratio and torque X RPM/5252.
Its no mystery or secret formula for a Lightning or any other vehicle. The blower, N2O, or any other power adder makes absolutly NO difference in the formula. Think about the BMW Formula One racing engine that came out with in 1992. This engine was a 1.5 liter V-8. Ferrari, Honda, Jaguar, all said this engine was too small and no way could it compete in Formula one racing. BMW actually got a weight break on the car because of less cubic inches than everyone else. They put the engine on 2000 HP engine dyno and pegged the torque scale. It even smoked the dyno and locked it up. The little engine was outlawed the next race. It's all about boost, and where the torque peaks in the RPM span makes NO difference in total HP.
Mad`

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97 Cobra, 11.90 @ 115--1.59 60 foot
65 Nova, 11.74 @ 123--2.10 60 foot (street tires)
57 Chevy 2dr.(original)
MADS` Hot Rods




[This message has been edited by Mad (edited 05-13-2000).]

 

So then we are either 500HP or lying about our timeslips then because your sliderule can't be wrong? Damn guys, he figured out about our 500HP machines. Now we gotta terminate him.

------------------
Red '00 Lightning,
Adopted 4/19/00,
PSP Filter,
Sound effects provided by Flowmaster,
Track time pending...

 

Man, you're just dumb as a stump ain't you? I'm usually a pretty easy going guy, but I have to tell you that people like you really burn me up sometimes. When are you going to learn? You can't rely on formulas as law. It just doesn't work that way in the real world. And I don't like being called a liar. You say you aren't calling anyone a liar. Well, when you ask someone a question, and don't believe thier answer, you're calling them a liar!! You asked for times, we gave them. You asked for slips, we gave them. You asked for weights, we gave them. We gave you an answer to every question you asked, yet you still don't believe us. Why? Because our ETs don't plug into your formula? Are you kidding? What makes your opinion worth anything anyway? You have two 11 second cars, big deal. Your timeslip shows you can't cut a light, for whatever reason you can make up. You stated track info in a previous post but said you didn't know what the barometric pressure was. Do you even know anything about racing? The most important aspect of wheather for turning good ETs, and you didn't know it? Why bother even making a statement? You want to see a 13.20 truck with just a chip and filter, come see me sometime. Are you saying that the new Lightning is the only vehicle that runs faster than you think it should? Do you really think that because you've seen a few Lightnings run poor times, that should apply to all of them? I've seen my share of 96-up Cobras run pathetic 14s. Does that mean that all Cobra owners who run 13s are liers? They must be lieing, because I saw one run a 14.52 the other day. You are a close minded, arrogant jackass who is obviously here to get responses like this, because anyone with half a brain would know better. Take your formulas and calculators down to the track and tell everyone who is running faster than they should that they are liers as well, and see if you don't leave without a good ***-kicking. I apologize to the other list members for this post, but I don't work my butt off to have someone like this call me, my friends, and my customers liers.

------------------
SAL
13.209@104.3mph
Power Surge Performance 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit, full Bassani Exhaust, Nitto Extreme Drags
PowerSurgePerf@aol.com

 

Hey Sal, Mark here....When you have the time, tell what you REALLY think..Just for the record, I agree with his thoughts on reaction times, however I don't pretend to know one thing about the mathmatic calculations being used here. I flunked math, okay, now you all know.

 

Go get him, Sal! That was great.

According to Mad's formulas, peak hp is the only relevant stat. What about two vehicles with the same peak hp, but one makes 400 foot pounds of torque at 2,000 rpm and the other makes 100. Mad's formula says there is no performance difference.

The Lightning obviously makes better power over a wider range than whatever cars his formula accurately predicts for.

 

I couldn't have said it better!!!!!! i can't wait to hook up with you sal next wed. who cares what these idiots want to beleive anyway? looking forward to a great cruise and time at st.louis. we'll see ya wed. take care.......

 

YA SAL, YA SAL, Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its about time someone who is very respectable tells this loser how things are.I have held back so much being scared to get thrown out of here.If i said it,I would have said it a little different Im glad someone put him in his place in a respectable mannor.This guy is a loser.Ive got so much to say but I'll bite my tongue so I remain a member! People like this really burn my A$$.

 

There are so many flaws in the calculator it is a waste of time to even try.

Example: Two identical trucks w/chip and filter. One gets the 4:10's, the other stays stock 3:55. The calculator asks for weight and time/speed only. Obviously the 4:10 will get there quicker. According to the calculator it has suddenly increased its HP. BS of course, but the calculator doesn't know it.

Example2: According to the calculator a RWHP OF 330HP gives a crank HP of around 430HP(on the one I tried and they are mostly similar). Another case of BS because there is no variable for various drivetrain efficiency, just one generic number. With our 11% efficiency crank is around 365+/-. A 65HP drop.

Then there is the way weather and temp affects forced induction engines. Has CA's Lightning something wrong with it because of the 15's she ran? Nah, come on down to sea level on a cool day.

If those calculators were reliable G-tech Pro could put track timing equipment companies out of business. The numbers have to be flexible because there are way too many factors affecting the runs.

------------------
Red '00 Lightning,
Adopted 4/19/00,
PSP Filter,
Sound effects provided by Flowmaster,
Track time pending...

 

Thanks Sal. That was the best post I've ever read here!!
Mad, you don't have all the facts correct one your F1 story. All 1.5L turbo engines were phased out by a rule change that drastically reduced boost so that 3.5L naturally aspirated engines could take over the series and reduce costs and speeds. There were a couple of years where both engines were used but the rules eventually took so much boost away that turbos were rendered obsolete. And costs still sky-rocketed.


------------------
White 1999 Lightning
Build Date 7-26-99
#2892
Snuglid
Bedrug
Superchip
Member NLOC

 

Well now, what's this rukus? To begin with, yes, a mathematical formula WILL work to accurately predict performance, and if anyone wants an engineering degree I can prove that, but, the formula is one helluva lot more complicated than TxRPM/5252. If I had to do it, it would take somewhere between hours and years and the variables involved would make your head spin. The fact of the matter is, it's a whole lot easier to do it after the run and figure out the variables from the actual run than to try to predict it ahead of time. And NEVER trust the supossed HP to ET formula of someone who can't explain in depth the effects of barometric pressure, that's akin to letting Jethro Bodine do your next brain surgery.

Gregg

 

Good for you Sal!!!!

Guess Mad wouldn't believe my '94 L ran a 13.10 at 105 in Ennis in '95 with super killer heads(Texas Turbo's), exhaust,MAF conversion, 75MM throttle body and radials at 4740 pounds. In addition we lost traction around the 1000 foot mark. We could have been in the high 12s.

Not only do we have all the time slips from all the testing and tuning that lead up to this we also have the Trophy. We beat all the Lightnings. We were faster than the Vorteced one. Gawd why did I sell it

Life is great!!!

P.S.

Sal when will I ever get my filter?

------------------
John Armstrong

2000 Red Lightning



[This message has been edited by jarmstro (edited 05-14-2000).]

 

Sal,
Nice. You're so awesome. I think he is just trying to get a rise. And it looks like you put the fear of Lightning in him ^5.

CA

 

Mad,or anyone:
I have most of my runs video taped (VHS). I have my 12.89@107.62 and my 12.97@107.13. If you need to see it to believe it. I have done a formula from my mph,from muscle mustang& fast fords. It showed my crank HP as 441. When my L was stock it ran 13.92@99.42. This was figed at 348 crank HP.
I guess my question is what formula has everyone else used?
My mods are simple: chip,filter,gears,shift kit,slicks.

[This message has been edited by JIGAWATT (edited 05-15-2000).]

 

JIGAWATT,

I would'nt bother if I were you. He won't believe what mods you have.