Sorry, double post. Wish we could delete.

[This message has been edited by LightningTuner (edited 04-07-2000).]

 

Hey Mike, Sal here. I wasn't intending to discredit what you were saying, I was really just trying to give the other side of the coin on the topic. I'm sure that the Pro-M kit does help, it was just my opinion that the gains are not worth the cost. You also stated that switching to a replacement K&N and removing the boot will net the same gains as the filter kits. Then you said that you have never actually seen a kit in person. And everyone on the board who owns a filter kit can vouch for improved performance. The Pro-m obviuosly works on your truck; hence you are happy. Nothing wrong with that. I have plenty of input from people who were not as satisfied with it and who actually had better performance from filter kits. Oh, and I know all about the meter differences, I've done plenty of research on that and I have plenty of "meter" calibration experiance.

P.S. Thanks for the kind words Steve.

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SAL
13.209@104.3mph
Power Surge Performance 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit, full Bassani Exhaust, Nitto Extreme Drags
PowerSurgePerf@aol.com

 

Sal,
I should worded my previous post a bit better than that and apologize for coming off like an A$$#le.
Here is what I know. It seems to me that most people with just a chip and any cold air kit run a 13.5-13.4 on average. My own personal experience was a 13.3 with a chip and K&N replacement filter. I was basing my claims of similar gains based on an old post from the summer when your kit first came out. If memory serve's me you posted gains of ~8rwhp from your kit (please correct me if I am wrong). Based on that I was saying the gains were similar...granted you are right that is not the most accurate way to do comparisons. Also, I was wrong in saying that I have not seen them I should have said not used them. I have seen your kit on Wyldman's truck and to be honest it looks like the prom kit to me. However, I will give you credit that your kit does pay better attention to detail. I understand that some have told you that prom's do not work while my experience and others I have met at the track seem to be just the opposite. *dunno* maybe it's a regional thing (weather, elevation, etc.) You stated that anyone on the board can vouch for improved performance concerning your kit. However, 2 things, 1)I have not seen anyone do any concluse back to back dyno or track tests (please post if you have them) 2)those of us who have been racing/dynoing for years now that you CANNOT feel 10rwhp especially in a 4800lb vehicle. Sorry guys...but the butt-o-meter is just not that accurate. I honestly believe that perceived massive improvement comes from the more agressive tone generated from the supercharger with the addition of the cold air kit. And hey for that alone anything is better, prom, cold air, no boot. I personally loved the sound I first heard with no boot and a K&N filter.

Now one thing I will say negative about the prom...you have to cut the wiring harness (ACT I think is what it is called). If you are not prepared to do this then don't bother.



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Mike B. '92 GT, '99 GT convertible, '99.5 Lightning
Houston Performance Chip
Pro-M 80 MAF
Bassani Full exhaust

Best ET 13.16@103.84

 

Everybody: Thanks for weighing in. This is the most informed group of this type I have ever connected up with in 10+ years and it appears most of us love our L's as much as I love mine. Now....if only Sal could find it in his heart to make me a filter kit....

Black Bolt No. 1618

 

Hey that's no problem Mike, lots of times stuff doesn't come out right in typed form. My first dyno test on my filter kit (let me just make clear that my previous posts were about ALL avaiable kits, not mine in general) showed an improvement of 9 rwhp on the dyno. But there were two foot notes to that. One was that that particluar filter used on that test was a regular K&N and not one of the Power Stack's I use in the kits. Two was that since my kits use the Power Stack filters, there is obviuosly a gain from the "ram air" effect of the moving vehicle. This cannot be measured on the dyno. I had done track testing with the kit and it did show an average improvement of 2/10s. It also allows the boost to come on quicker as many have stated here on the board, which increases performance. As for times, they vary so much. My truck has my chip, filter kit and full Bassani and my truck was going 13.20s last time with some wheel spin at my crappy local track. And there are guys using just my chip and filter going faster than 13.50s here on the board. So these products definately work. Just out of curiousity, what did your truck turn stock?

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SAL
13.209@104.3mph
Power Surge Performance 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit, full Bassani Exhaust, Nitto Extreme Drags
PowerSurgePerf@aol.com

 

My A** O Meter did notice a difference when I pulled the boot off. And another when I replaced the stock filter with a K&N. Perhaps I am a big enough A**hole that my meter is better calibrated than most.

Not a lot of change but I could feel the difference and see it in the boost gage. Sound is not what I am in this for- I like being pressed back in the seat and snapping my neck when it shifts to second.

Once my truck has passed the magic 3000 I will be adding a chip and open filter most likely... After all its only money and you cant take it with you.

I agree with Steve. Sheetmetal, Airfilters and ecm's for trucks are not my thing. I pay professionals for experience, expertise and know how. Anyone who works on Fords everyday knows more about them than me, and If they own one and are an enthusiast then that makes a potent combination of information.

Thats why I read and appreciate this board .

Doug

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Got Silver 2000 Lightning 2/28/00!!
1st run 13.9 sec 1/4 !!
Doug
Carrollton TX
drbdkb@hotmail.com
Had 87 Turbo Coupe traded for
92 F150 XLT 302, Put K&N Filter, cat back and Chip on 92 Still not enough. For Sale.
Silver 2000 Lightning, Valentine 1, Snuglid and Bedrug. K&N Filter.

 

mb92gt99gt99light: (geez, that's a long handle )

My comment was certainly not meant to be interpreted as a "rule" for the message boards. It was meant as much tongue in cheek, as Sal is highly respected around here...nothing personal at all. All opinions and input are welcome here!

Steve

 

I have done some dyno research with various Lightning products, although I'm not sure I'd call myself an expert. I thought I would pass along, however, that the Pro-M has shown roughly twice the rwhp gain that any filter kits have on our dyno.

Thing is, I never checked a/f ratio change with the filter kits. I did, however, check a/f ratio change with the Pro-M. I believe some of the hp increase comes from leaning the WOT mixture (it's still very conservative).

Because of this, making a "safe" chip on top of the Pro-M means there's less hp gain from the chip than there would be on a stock Lightning. It also means that a chip that is ragged edge with the stock meter and airbox will probably be unsafe if a Pro-M is added to the combination.

We tried just putting a cone on the stock MAF once. There must have been some sort of turbulence/calibration issue (the filter started right at the MAF flange), 'cause the truck lost an enormous amount of power across the range.

I should also add that even though I haven't checked a/f ratio changes with Lightning filter kits, my studies with other cars shows that a filter swap, or even turning the MAF 90 degrees, can have a large effect on a/f ratio even if the stock MAF is retained.

Back to lurking...

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------------------------
Michael Sen-Roy
Houston Performance
281-893-6080
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[This message has been edited by HP Tech (edited 04-07-2000).]

 

I purchase the downs unit and was very disappointed in the fit and finish. I would not order it again. The price is right, but that's about it.

------------------
99 RED Lightning
90 ZR1
67 XR7 GT
87 Honda Accord (?)

 

Why waste your money ona cold air kit....just go and order the prom80mm MAF. I picked up over 20rwhp with mine. If you are dead set on cheap and effective then do this.
1)swap the stock filter for a K&N replacement
2)yank the rubber boot.

This has approximately the same effect as the kits out there.

Just my .02

Mike B.

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Mike B. '92 GT, '99 GT convertible, '99.5 Lightning
Houston Performance Chip
Pro-M 80 MAF
Bassani Full exhaust

Best ET 13.16@103.84

 

Hey Mike, Sal here. Maybe I can explain your meter/filter observation. When testing the AirRaid system, which uses the same size filter as our PSP kit just with the standard rubber ended filter, it was found that the dyno grah started to have a disturbance at high rpms. If you held your hand on the rubber end cap during the pull, it went away. Turns out the design of the standard K&N filter with the rubber end caused the air to reverberate and effect the meter readings. A switch to one of the Power Stack filters used in our PSP kit elimiated that problem. Just thought I'd share that since you comment jogged my memory.

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SAL
13.209@104.3mph
Power Surge Performance 99 Lightning Chip and Filter Kit, full Bassani Exhaust, Nitto Extreme Drags
PowerSurgePerf@aol.com

 

Steve- Have you talked to AirRaid about switching to the powerstack type K&N instead of the rubber ended model? I would love to order a PSP unit, but I couldn't get Sal's online order deal to work, so I e-mailed him twice within the past month, never got a response, then I hear he is no longer taking orders. I think the big attraction to the PSP unit is #1 the price, #2 the filter itself. I think that most people who spend $34K on a toy (meant in a good way), can afford the extra $75 if they really want a "power enhancing accessory. I would also suggest that if your filter kits are readily available, that you take advantage of your position in the marketplace, and offer a group purchase, where 10 or 20 people have to place orders to get an extra $20 off (example). The guys over at LS1.com have been doing this for the past 2 years, through sponsors and members.

[This message has been edited by BACK2FORD (edited 04-08-2000).]

 

Steve,
The handle started years ago on the corral as simply mike b....well that worked for about 6months. So then it was changed to Mike B. 92gt, then mikeb92gt98gt, then mb92gt99gt, and finally mb92gt99gt99light. just some history for you.

Sal,
Bone stock under perfect weather conditions during the winter the best my truck went was a 13.89@98.6. The worse it ever did stock was probably my first run at the track and if memory serves me it was a 14.1@98. That is if you don't count the time I tried launching at 2k behind a car that just layed oil can we say 15.6@96 oops.....


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Mike B. '92 GT, '99 GT convertible, '99.5 Lightning
Houston Performance Chip
Pro-M 80 MAF
Bassani Full exhaust

Best ET 13.16@103.84

 

Hey Sal,

Any idea when your backlog will be out?