Hi All,

I have been thinking about what are the possible causes for the significant performance differences discussed here (1/4 ets may be all over the place, but our mph's should be close if we all were making the same horsepower, granted at similar weather conditions). Certainly production tolerances would account for some or most of this. That thought quickly pointed me to the supercharger as many are reporting greater than 8psi of boost. Boost pressure variances would either come from a faulty gage (zero offset), or the hope that 'your supercharger is putting out more than mine'. Assuming that the supercharger is putting out more, or has the potential, had me looking in the direction of the infamous bypass valve. Mike Troyer stated that when developing the new Superchip, they discovered that the boost was being limited by the computer, using the bypass valve to dump boost by as much as 3-5 psi (Mike, I apologize if I have misstated). If that were true, then disconnecting the vacuum supply to the bypass valve diaphragm would generate the maximum boost. I remember reading someone had done this at the track and showed no improvement which would be contradictory to Mike's claim. I have not done this so I have no direct knowledge, just hearsay. So we have two opposing data points. Anyone care to add details on this subject?

My next assumption is that maybe the bypass valve leakage can be adjusted when the valve is closed. The mounting bracket configuration suggests that there could be variances in the way it is mounted, but better yet there is an screw to adjust the close stop position. So I called Magnuson Products and talked to Ed Tresbac (spelling?). Magnuson is the only Eaton Authorized repair facility and according to the Eaton website they support 'aftermarket system modifications, upgradability, and remanufacturer of out-of-warranty superchargers'. Ed stated that this screw does adjust the close stop of the bypass valve, however, he said that it is set by the factory and should not be adjusted because you could jam the ~1.5in butterfly in the bore if you try to close it more. He then went on to say that the supercharger is already spinning at 14000 rpm and if you spin it faster (ie, different pully) you would most likely get into a wobble mode on the screw lobes and crash into the wall or each other. He said he had talked to someone who had already tried to make the pulley change and that they had destroyed the supercharger in the process. He continued with the point that if you tried to add more boost with pump gas (premium of course), that there would be a problem with pinging.

So the bottom line from I what I've heard, the supercharger is maxed out and there are no tweeks in this area.

ANY COMMENTS????


------------------
Joel.......
99.5 White Lightning, all the required options.
Superchip!!!!!

 

Hey Joel, Sal here. When I first heard of Superchips making more boost by playing with the by-pass valve, I think I laughed my butt off my chair. First of all, let me point out that the by-pass valve used on the 99 Lightning, DOES NOT CONTROL BOOST. If you tamper with it, you can DAMAGE your engine and/or blower. The by-pass is closed any time that a load conditon exists. The by-pass opens when the manifold has vacuum. There are several reasons for this. One is that during conditons of vacuum, when the motor is not under boost like idle and cruise, the by-pass opens to allow the air to not get "super heated" by the blower. If this blower didn't have a by-pass, it would get just as red hot as a Kenne Bell blower does. Another reason for the by-pass, is on hard decelleration, you want to vent the excess air off instead of trying to force it into a decellerating engine. When Superchips first started playing with the 99 Lightning, they thought the EEC control for this was not a by-pass but an electronically controlled boost valve. This valve does not work like a boost "wastegate" as some think. If you make it so that the valve stays open more, you will bleed off boost and lose power. If you make it so that it doesn't open as much, you will heat the intake air more, and again, lose power. As for why some trucks turn better ETs than others, I don't think it's a matter of differences between the trucks, but differences in air, track conditions and drivers. All 99's I;ve seen will turn about the same MPH, 97-99. But launching these trucks is not easy to do consistantly. My truck will go 13.8s, bone stock, off the showroom floor. But at another track, on a crappy day (air wise) it may go 14s. I think that the 99s are definately closer to running similar ETs than the early Lightnings were, ranging from 14.8s to 15.8s, stock. As for the blowers max power, the blower is said to be working at max power as it comes, but this is not entirely true. It is working at max EFFICIANCY. It will make more power by increasing boost, without damaging the blower. Ford tested the 99 with up to 20 psi and nothing ever failed. But as you make more boost past what it makes stock, the blower will generate more heat, making it produce less power per pound of boost. I am currently working with a pulley company on an underdrive crank pulley for the 99.

SAL

------------------
Power Surge Performance--- Your SOURCE for SVT Lightning EFI Tuning and Perormance!! http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html





[This message has been edited by LightningTuner (edited 08-11-1999).]

[This message has been edited by LightningTuner (edited 08-11-1999).]

 

Sal, as some of the others here have stated in other posts I was glad to see that you had arrived here on the F-150 BB. You have contacts and experience with your job that enables you to really help all of us as Lightning owners. And your insite on performance issues with our truck helps us all.

With this said I also want to state that I was subscribed to the Lightning List for a while early this spring. Some of the information that was available on the List was great, but the thing that really turned me off (and made me decide to leave) was the attitute toward SuperChips and other after market suppliers. You will find that this BB is very different from the Lightning List. We understand that you have a competing product and welcome your input. However please keep the mood professional and courteous. I think the attitude and professionalism of Mike with SuperChips is a good example of what the members here like to see. We as Lightning owners will decide which products we will purchase and from whom. Competition is great for us consumers, lets just keep input at the level that we have come to expect here on the F-150 BB.

This is not a flame toward you or other aftermaret suppliers at all, although some here may disagree with my opinion, it is after all just my opionion. I also have no vested interest in any aftermarket suppliers here or anywhere else. Thanks...Tybee

 

Hey Tybee, Sal here. I apologize if my previous post may have sounded "flame like". I can see your point, however I did not intend to flame Superchips. It's just that in the Ford performance and tuning business, I know a lot of people, and I have access to a a lot of information that most don't. Most Lightning owners would rather hear the truth no matter how bad it tastes, than to hear suger coated lies that make them feel better. I always try to be as professional as I can be towards other companies, whether they are competetors or not. I only disclose "negative" information concerning other people's products if that information is personal experiance, or if I know that it is the absolute truth. I won't say stuff like "Superchips 99 Lightning chip sucks" or anything like that, because I have no proof of that. People here who have them seem happy. I have no problem with that. I have heard of people running slower with Superchips' 99 Lightning chip, but very few, so the overall picture seems to be that it works. The bottom line is I don't set out to flame people, I just give people the information they need to make thier own decisions.

SAL

------------------
Power Surge Performance--- Your SOURCE for SVT Lightning EFI Tuning and Performance!! <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html


" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html


</A>

 

Thanks Sal for the input. You have confirmed both my suspicions and what Ed at Magnuson Products stated about how the bypass valve operates. I work in the aerospace butterfly valve industry where we use closed loop systems with torque motors to bleed off/on pressure. I could see this kind of technology (which is not high tech) incorporated to do this. However, this approach would require a high actuation force to control the bypass valve position at high flow rates (WOT) to counter act the aerodynamic induced torque on the butterfly at near closed positions. This is why I suspected that the valve was really more like an on/off device.

My first concern is the reliability (life) degradation of the supercharger when you spin it faster. Ed stated that at greater than 14K rpm the rotors have an unstable wobble or whipping rotor dynamics mode which could/would result in a crash into each other or the wall. I thought the pully ratio was about 2.1:1. If I'm right (can't find my notes on pulley sizes) that would mean there is 3600 additional supercharger rpm for more boost before we approach the rotor dynamic concerns of the supercharger at the engine redline of 5400rpm. Of course you could probably get 6000rpm out of the motor, and this would change the pulley ratio to 2.33. This may sound like I'm contradicting myself, but the bottom line is (based on what I've heard up to now) I think were good to go if we stay under a supercharger rpm of 14K.

I understand about the efficiency aspects of spinning faster, but what I'm also concerned about is that with the increased boost appropriate modifications would be required to the ignition timing at all rpms. If I understand it right your chip is a WOT ONLY modification. So the question Sal is how would the timing be adjusted at say 7/8 throttle under a heavy pulling load to prevent pinging with the additional boost?


------------------
Joel.......
99.5 White Lightning, all the required options.
Superchip!!!!!

 

Hey Joel, Sal here. My chips are NOT chips that work only at WOT as another chip manufacturer would like you to beleive. I have full control over almost every single PCM function. I can adjust timing, fuel, tranny functions, retards, convetor clutch, and MANY more functions per any rpm, at any load and/or throttle position. The software I use for my chips (C&M Racing/Autologic ala Mike Wesley) gives me access to many more PCM controls than any other chip manufacturer, no matter what they say. Increasing boost will affect A/F ratio and timing needs, and unless you are willing to drive to NY and have me tune your truck on the dyno, it's sometimes a hit and miss with making chips for vehicles modifed from stock. What I am planning to do, is make a performance "package" with say an underdrive pulley, cone fitler set up, maybe a new MAF, and the chip that goes with it. I will keep you posted on that progress.

SAL

------------------
Power Surge Performance--- Your SOURCE for SVT Lightning EFI Tuning and Performance!! <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html


" TARGET=_blank>http://members.aol.com/NLOCsvt/svt.html


</A>