I am looking to get a set of used 02 heads for a build down the road. I only want the heads for the head alone, nothing else. The heads are cheap and I wanted to no if the insert are gonna hold up over time vs just waiting and finding a used 03/04 set with the 7 threads.

Is it normally for head builders to be boring out perfectly good 03/04 heads for inserts? Do other companies install inserts on there built heads (Edelbrock)?

Will inserts rust down the road?

Has anyone with insert every had one come loose?

I've been told when buying used heads to look and make sure all the material is intact at the bottom of the spark plug hole going into the chamber. If some of this material is missing there will be big problems down the road. Is there anything else I should look for in buying uses 02 heads?

Thanks for any input

 

I can vouch for the Heil-Coil brand coil inserts. Way stronger than plain aluminum threads no matter the thread count. The wire they are made from is 18-8 stainless steel work hardened to tensile strength over 200,000 PSI. The hardness is Rc 43-50 with a 8-16 microinch finish.

Solid inserts will be no better than no insert at all.

My info is not based on "what I have heard" or what my tuner/builder uses. It is based on actual lab testing of inserts in the actual application.

 

They're still inserted into aluminum. It doesn't matter if they're made of Inconel if they're inserted into silly putty...

They may be better than 7 threads but quoting material specs doesn't answer the question.

 

In some ways it does.What he is saying in laymans terms is that with that finish the plug will thread into the head easier by hand and that the torque value will be more acurate.And with the wire being stainless it willnot rust.also with the harness the material of the plug is softer so if you can cross thread it you will ruin the plug long before the insert.Stan

 

only one way to find out. no inserts drivers side, inserts on passenger side and see what last longer

i know johnny has posted on here he puts inserts in all his heads. he has the most HP here so I guess they must be holding up.

 

That'll teach me to respond without thinking things through... :o

 

If Patriot is doing his heads, he has no choice but to use inserts because that's what they do to all there L heads.

Is there an L Aftermarket Dealer selling 03/04 built heads with no inserts?

 

Silver-Bolt,
Thanks for the good info you posted. Curious if you have any input about the Timserts??:

 

I am not familiar with Timserts. If it is a solid insert it does not matter who makes it. The big difference between a solid insert and a wire inster is how the load is distributed along the threads. A solid insert when brought up to torque the entire torque load is on the first 2-3 threads. Does not matter how long the insert is or how many threads of engagement it has. The load is only on the top few threads. A wire type insert the torque load is distributed through all threads of engagement. Sounds like a minor difference but it is not. During testing we tested brand-x solid inserts. Installed in lab conditions exactly to manufacturer's specs. Plugs were inserted and torqued. When to Ford's recommended spec they were fine. When torqued beyond that the inserts pulled out of the heads 100% of the time. It took very little additional torque beyond recommended for the failure to happen. On the wire inserts in the old style heads (4 threads) the same test was performed. Not only did the inserts hold but we were able to increase the torque until the plug twisted in two. We were then able the unscrew the broken plug and install another plug and repeat the same test. After torqueing 16 plugs to the point of failing in the same hole we gave up. Could not make the insert fail.

If someone can convert a PDF file to a format that can be posted here I can show a "photo elastic stress analysis" that illistrates how the load is distributed.

 

First off, JL does not use Patriot heads.

Second, Patriot does not insert their heads, you have to ask for it extra, and it costs extra. I use Patriot heads and yes I have them insert them all.

If you can find a set of 03/04 heads than I'd go with those. But I'd bet it would take you a long time to find a set for sale. The 8 thread heads were only used on the Lightning, and most owners know what they have. Even though you can buy most CNC heads outright, I'd think most 03-04 owners would be sending in their own heads to keep the thread count.

If you are looking for used heads, I have a set here that the owner wants to sell. Came off a Lightning motor job I have here.

BTW Tampa, you cannot defeat the quad lazer..

 

I should throw in a little summary. Solids inserts performed better than no inserts but only marginally. I would have no problem running the old style heads on a built motor in my own rig with wire type inserts. If I happen to come across the new style heads I would add wire inserts before running them. Either style head would benefit greatly from having wire inserts installed on all of the threaded holes. That would mean buying a kit for each size but the result would be worth the cost and effort. Coil pack screw holes are a prime canidate. Exhaust mounting holes are another great application.

 

Actually you couldn't be further from facts here. I have a slick little sales tool I demonstrate to customers. It is a 1/2" thinck bar of basic non-heat treated aluminum. I drill two holes in it. One hole gets tapped 1/4-20 and the other holes gets tapped for a 1/4-20 wire insert. Into hole #1 I install a 1/4-20 grade 2 hex bolt and washer. I proceed to torque the bolt until ultimately the aluminum threads fail. I then take a 1/4-20 grade 8 bolt and washer and install it into the hole with an insert. I proceed to torque the grade 8 until the bolt breaks. I can then remove the broken piece and repeat the test in the same hole. It's all in how the torque load is carried.

And we actually do make inserts out of Inconel X-750 material but it is not for strength purposes. That material is for high heat applications such as jet and rocket engines. Also now making wire inserts out of titanium as well.

 

Thanks Sal, this still confused me

JL said in his Heads Special thread that he installs inserts on all his heads, even the 03/04 heads. Why would this be if these are the ideal heads you want? I'm trying to learn here and build a good set of heads with durability and longevity.

I have a friend with a contact to buy new 03/04 heads for a good price. Thanks anyway.

 

I did talk to Fox Lake today and they made me feel better about several things I already new.

1) Most plugs blow by owners over torqing there plugs. If you keep to 13ft lbs on your plugs you will be fine, even with only 4 threads.

2) Any insert is not great but will work, ideally a newer set of 03//04 heads is best.

3) Inserts cost $40 a hole to install. That's $320 towards buying the newer heads already.

So, I will just save and buy a new set of heads.

Thanks for all the info

 

I can't speak for JL, but I will ASSUME that JL prolly gets his heads from his supplier already with inserts put in. So I'm guessing no matter what head they get in for a core, they insert it.

For the record, I'd like to point out that I have NEVER, EVER, had a plug blow out on any of my trucks, or any of my customers trucks I've put plugs in. The key to not having this issue is three things...

1- Check the plugs from day 1. The majority of blow outs are because FORD does not tighten the plugs on new motors right. I had three plugs in my 01 that I took out without a wratchet myself when it was new.

2- Proper plug torque. Tighten till snug, and go a 1/16 turn more. Done.

3- NO ANTI-SIEZE!! I don't care who tells you what, do NOT put anti-sieze on the plugs in a stock head. Even Ford specifically says NOT to. If you have inserts, then you DO use anti-sieze. But dry for stock heads.