One more thing....and no disrespect to you Suavy but... I don't think the factory is machining every dimension on there blocks to within microns. The factory would be worried about surface finish to microns but not entire planes like a deck surface. Like Jon said if a deck is out of square with the crank center line by .007 over its entire length then for a production engine....who cares...it means almost nothing. The factory would worry about surface finish then flatness or roundness, squareness would be last in most cases. If the tollerances were that tight on every dimension ford wouldn't be able to build'em as cheap as they do.
Dale

PS...Stan I agree with you 200%

 

I'm no expert or even an ovice in metals..

but isn't .007 very small considering these engines go from 30 degrees below zero (michigan winter) to 200 degrees (operating temp) Can't the metal expand and shrink .007 due to the temperature?

 

menace

Its .00000633 per inch per degree for steel I mean about twice that for aluminum

 

I also think that the blocks are being machined before they cool down that would explain the warping.Gotto love mass production Stan

 

dude... like I said.. I'm a novice at best.. that's greek to me.

 

Interesting info Rob... Was the block align bored? Would be interesting to see if those specs were off by much...

 

Suavy, I agree that new Ford blocks are machined to great standards. I have always been impressed with how well they are out of the box. I really don't know if what my machinist found would even affect anything. All I know is what he told me found. The new block he checked was a 4.6 block. Isn't there a Romeo and Windsor block for the 4.6? Are they both made at your plant?

SLVRLNTN, if you read my post, I said I "think" that's what he said, I am not 100% sure. I might have been 70 thou. I can ask him if it is of interest.

Stan, I agree with you about doing it without the high tech stuff. My machinist has always done things the right way. When he was first showing me that machine when I dropped Robs motor off, he said it doesn't do anything more than he was already doing, it just does it in a fraction of the time. What used to take him 3 days manually, now takes 45 minutes once the machine is programmed.

I do know that he told me that the decks on Robs block showed two big spots where the head gaskets were blowing out. There was plain as day tracking marks on the deck between 4 cylinders. Rob's heads were warped, and so was the deck, he just didn't realize HOW warped the block was till he found this.

 

ROB/SAL every time you guys post, I learn something new about Lightning's and Mod Motors.

 

Sal, yes there are 4.6L block machined at both plants. We do the majority here at Romeo. I am going to get with my process engineer Monday. I am a manager I don't have to be the expert I have a team of experts working for me.
I can however check the desired tolerances for you.
We do check flatness, cylindricity, and square ness to datum's all are checked by microns.

Suavy

 

Being said Sal, Can the warpage be taken care of by machining or was it so severe that the engine and heads needed replaced? I need to give you a call soon and pick your brain about my future engine/poweradder combo.

Keith

 

One other thing to think about is as you mill the head deck the block and bore the mains you are changing valve timeing since the now have shortend the distance between them.and the chain is the same length.and since you have changed that you now have changed the injector and timing of the engine to since that is run off of[or finds]when to fire #1 from the driverside cam sprocket.STan

 

dp

 

Sean Hyland has a good write up on how to degree the cams in both the 2V and 4V motors in his new book. I had to learn myself but maybe that book would help some. People also say you cant move the cams and that is BS. I shave the keyway inside the cam gear and then advance or retard it with shims in the keyway. If the bolt is torqued properly you dont have to worry about the gear moving. Don't laugh it works.
Dale

 

Are you kidding me, Im confused as hell.

 

HI!... I have buddies that work at the WINDSOR engine plant here in WINDSOR. As you know almost all 5.4's are built here, even the LIGHTNING 5.4's. The decks on these blocks are off square due to FORD's does not use TQ plates when they bore/hone. Also it is not done slow and steady. Due to production requirments the blocks are machined as fast as possible. A few of my buddies that work there have told me about all kinds of machining errors that get through. I've been through the plant and have seen how it's done. Then there was the famous "99" year 5.4's. A ton of them got out the plant with massive deck surface problems. I got one of them. In 6 years I have had the heads and head gaskets replaced on my "99" 5.4. FORD doesn't understand. IT'S NOT THE DAM GASKETS OR THE HEADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!IT'S THE FRICKIN DECK SURFACE!!!!!!! It's been proven over and over again. But of coarse it's cheaper for them to replace head gaskets than complete engines.....................