Remember one thing Gent's the MP was intended to be an affordable alternative to the KB. MP never said it would apples to apples.


Suavy
:santa:

 

As far as it being a "mod", all I was saying is that in my experience, it was not necessary to do it mechanically, via re-routing vacuum lines. There does seem to be different schools of thought where this is concerned(electronically -vs- mechanically).

My main concern, was I didn't want it dumping boost and bogging in the middle of a burnout due to excessive heat build-up. While just driving on the street, there were times when I'd left it plugged in(boost dump solenoid), but never noticed a loss of boost or a degredation in performance.

As far as the Whipple, I have no idea what boost level(pulley combo) the base kit(as offered by FRPP) will be set-up with. I personally, would just leave the solenoid disconnected, and not worry about it. Just my .02

 

You are misunderstanding the point of the bypass mod. It prevents the PCM from forcing total bypass. Its NOT related to or signaled by total boost but other parameters.

All it does is prevent the embarrasment of a no boost run down the track. Wether you are running stock boost or 20# of extra boost - it does the same thing.

Its not that you cant or shouldnt unplug the harness while at the track - its that its not REQUIRED at certain levels of boost.

Doug

 

not to shabby

i ran at 17lbs of boost and long tubes stock long block and cold air intake and the magnum

12.0 at 1440' DA

in california you have got to have slicks or you aint gonna do chit

we got more dust, then a drug dealer

 

Doug, ok. But Tuners are out there selling and recommending this mod when increasing the boost. What parameters is it looking at?
Is this a "scam" that you need to modify this system??

I only am under this impression because this what I was told when I bought my first mods. I think, unless I am the only one that thinks this way, that more people need to know about this...

Or is it that this mod is needed when you signifigantly modify you engine and I just have the reason why?

I seem to remember people without the mod were having boost issues when racing. I have always had this mod done and never had it happen to me, that to me makes it requirred as I do not want the ECM to be able to control/limit my boost. If the ECM has that ability it would ruin a run and throw consistency out the window!!
I guess my meanging of needed mods are different than yours, you keep saying that all it will do is reduce the boost or whatever...this is exactly why it IS needed by me, maybe it isn't for everyone??

 

Jeez, nothing like high-jacking a thread !!!!
How bout an answer on the original post?
Maybe LX just wants bragging rights or whatever. Kinda like a guy having snap on tools instead of craftsman. With the right pulley choice he could have the KB the 450 HP.

Then there is the part about towing with the KB set up for 450 HP. Since it is more effecient than the Eaton generally speaking it seems like it would be a good thing and have potential for future growth later on.

What about the issue of the 03-04 stock blocks compared to earlier ones?

"PEACE"

 

I dont know who you are reffering too, but I was responding to his post. I don't believe that acveiving THAT kind of power (enough to justify the expense) is possible by ONLY adding a blower (of whatever brand)!!

I think that is a stretch to think that you make 450 hp by only adding more air! What kind of Air/Fuel ratio do you think that would create??

I am saying that it would be a great idea, IF done right with the correct A/F ratio and other mods. This would include things such as a programmer,CAI and boost bypass.

I guess the highjacking occurred when people opposed my ideas that JUST the blower might not be a good idea...

At the very least, the truck should dyno'd to check A/F ratio before any serious driving/racing, let alone TOWING!!

Anyone that suggests doing this without is simply..well NUTS, especially on a stock block...you are just asking for trouble!!

It has been reported on here that the newer trucks are famous for running lean as is!!

SO, I did answer his question by saying I think pullies and a programmer is a better route to take as the A/F ratios would certainly be SAFER!!


Let me just say this...If you people want to make this forum a FANTASY LAND where you can just blow smoke and dream about these ideas and have all the "experts" say how wonderful they are...then I will never respond again...

Excuse me for trying to intraject a little reality and common sense!!!

 

AND WHATS WRONG WITH THAT

To people like me (and hundreds of others), it's an awesome alternative to spending 5K OR MORE on a KB, Injectors, Pumps, Maf, etc.... (I'm sure we can add a K or 2 more for the Whipple) but got dam is it beeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful

I WILL run 10's on mine with a 100% stock Fuel System
AND THE SPRAY OF COURSE
For a stock L, it's an awesome choice, and for a Built L (like I'm doing now), it's even a better choice at LESS THAN A THIRD of
the intial cost of a KB and MUST HAVE fuel upgrades.

This supercharger is so efficient its exit air temperature is 1/2 that of the Eaton, which is proof, the supercharger takes less power to drive. It's a 1.8L (112 cubic inch) 2 cycle roots that achieves high performance not by size but through efficient high-speed operation. Our unique design extends the supercharger's volumetric efficiency from 12,000 rpm to 24,000 rpm allowing the supercharger to be spun hard creating boost levels normally obtained only by larger superchargers. Due to our unique port design volumetric efficiency increases with rpm therefore the supercharger works best when running at very high PRM, that is in the RPM band where the 3 cycle Eaton looses volumetric efficiency and begins to generate additional heat. It should be kept in mind therefore to achieve best performance the Magnum Powers Supercharger must be spun hard and fast.

People simply need to understand it's design. Of course I have all intentions of upgrading the fuel system eventually, but for now,
I DONT HAVE TO, like I would for a larger displacement S/C.
(and even when I do, it'll still be 1/2 the price)

 

Injectors will have to be changed with the MP as well. I'm running out of injector at 4800 rpms with a 6# lower. The MAF is pegged way before you're making enough power to run a 10.xx sec. run as well. Sal will be able to work around the MAF though.

--------------------------------------------------------


KB- $2,999.00
MP- $1,699.00 + a bigger pulley to spin it up to where it makes power.

1/3 the price? Must be the new math or something.

 

You said:
Injectors will have to be changed with the MP as well. I'm running out of injector at 4800 rpms with a 6# lower. The MAF is pegged way before you're making enough power to run a 10.xx sec. run as well. Sal will be able to work around the MAF though.

OW, true we may have some A/F issues, thats still to be seen,
and as said eventually I WILL upgrade the system ???
As I said Fuel System upgrade and aftermarket S/C usually go hand in hand, "HOWEVER" I believe due the the fact the MP makes it power by turning it faster, rather than a larger displacement, the upgrade IS NOT an immediate requirement, where as with the KB I FEEL it is (hence my Math)

I have already proved you can run well over 500HP and @650TQ
with a A/F of 10.nothing using the 100% stock fuel system,
(those #'s were taken @ 5500 RPM, I shift as high as 5700,
been there done that, and I stand by my statement that WITH NITROUS I feel we can achieve 10's with the stock system.

I feel the factory system runs short when it's hit with the massive air intake a larger displacement S/C brings in, (needing A LOT more fuel to off set it, and the injectors can't handle the flow), where as the MP uses higher RPM and Boost, BUT MAINTAINS THE FACTORY DISPLACEMNT.

It's A LOT easier to run a A/F like mine that dips into the 9's and flat lines at 10.nothing because I'm shooting raw fuel at it
via a Digital Controlled Nitrous System. After seeing the numbers and running it like this for A LONG TIME NOW, I think it proves the factory system has PLENTY OF FUEL AVAILABLE.

I'm very much looking foward to working with Sal + Charles to see how this all plays out, and if need be I will of course have no choice but to upgrade, but I truly believe we can pull it off ???

 

Comparing fuel system requirements of a motor running a wet nitrous system vs. just a blower is apples to oranges. Sure you can get 500+rwhp/650+rwtq using stock injectors/pumps if you're running a wet nitrous setup. You've got an extra fuel injector working for you.

Pegging the MAF or running out of injectors/pumps is an airflow (and HP potential) issue.

Whether you're running a stock Eaton, ported Eaton, MP, KB, or Whipple... at a certain HP level you will need more fuel. In fact, the less efficient blowers will actually require a richer A/F ratio in an effort to use excess fuel to cool the intake charge...everthing else being equal.

And we're still getting off the original thought which was to skip a lot of the intermediate mods and just go straight for the better/more efficient blower. Sure you _can_ run 10s-11s and do it a number of ways. We already know that.

 

I've tried telling Rob that until I was blue in the face

In his mind, the "stock" fuel system will handle 500rwhp. I even showed him a dyno pull with my Apten, with the a/f getting dangerous lean. But because his wasn't, he argued the stock fuel system will work.
He kept forgetting about that extra injector........Oh well

Maybe you'll have better luck

 

I never said I don't understand it guys, and I also said I know I will have to bite the bullet and go for it eventually

Of course I understand the EXTRA injector, thats WHAT I've been telling all of you for how long now. WE GOT THE AVAILABLE FUEL.

I just think the MP fits PERFECTLY into my plans and WAY OF THINKING, and just maybe I can put off fuel upgrades a little longer.

I also agree with this post, going straight to a KB (or other) as a first stage Mod. IT'S AN AWESOME IDEA and I would do it had I had the choices and knowledge back then

 

You can run a KB and cold air with a tune as your only mods and @ 15#'s be completely (relatively speaking) safe at 450 hp. That is exactly where I was at all summer. No fuel mods needed. Also because you need to run more boost on the MP to get your numbers that means your injectors have to have more pessure behind them to compensate for the cylinder psi. Which in turn makes you run out of pump also. So with a more efficient twin screw it doesn't take as many mods to make the power.

 

I made 467 RW Hp and 566 ft lb torque with just a 4 lb lower and a MP and stock fuel system, stock cams.