Eaton Carnage
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From: Newark,CA
Eaton Carnage
I know many of you have seen this on the other forums but I'm looking for all the input I can get.
I decided I need to get to the bottom of the low vacuum my truck has at idle (10")
First was a compression test, 155 - 162 psi. (good)
Next a leakdown 6% - 12% (fair)
Ok, need to check the cam timing, (mild Elgin regrinds)
In order to get the valve covers off, need to pull off the supercharger.
Whem I removed the intake plenum I see this:
Oh oh, something has been hot here.
Then I pull off the SC and turn it over AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!
:
What the F---------
It is an Apten Ported Eaton. It made a strange howling noise at 1500 rpm when cold when I first put it on, sounded like bearings.
Pulled the rotors, looked OK (no contact) so I sent the drive snout back to Apten, They gave it a clean bill of health so I put it all back together. Still made the strange howling noise at 1500 when cold only.
Made full boost yesterday (16 psi) no indication of any problem whatsoever.
Unfortunately this has nothing to do with the original problem but I am looking for advice on what might have caused this and where to go from here.
I know the unit is trash and I doubt that Apten is going to send a me a new one (if ya wanna play ya gotta pay).
So, do I buy another Eaton and have it ported (will it happen again)? Order a KB or wait for a Whipple?
Either way I'm going to pull the rotors, tidy things up and put it back together while I make up my mind. I figure the damage is done and it can't get much worse.
Maybe I'll just build a fresh motor (12% leak is not really good). After I swap it out, I'll have a set of Manley H-Beams for sale with about 3000 miles on them.
Damn, I've got other fish to fry, I thought my truck was finished.:bm:
I decided I need to get to the bottom of the low vacuum my truck has at idle (10")
First was a compression test, 155 - 162 psi. (good)
Next a leakdown 6% - 12% (fair)
Ok, need to check the cam timing, (mild Elgin regrinds)
In order to get the valve covers off, need to pull off the supercharger.
Whem I removed the intake plenum I see this:
Oh oh, something has been hot here.
Then I pull off the SC and turn it over AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!
:
What the F---------
It is an Apten Ported Eaton. It made a strange howling noise at 1500 rpm when cold when I first put it on, sounded like bearings.
Pulled the rotors, looked OK (no contact) so I sent the drive snout back to Apten, They gave it a clean bill of health so I put it all back together. Still made the strange howling noise at 1500 when cold only.
Made full boost yesterday (16 psi) no indication of any problem whatsoever.
Unfortunately this has nothing to do with the original problem but I am looking for advice on what might have caused this and where to go from here.
I know the unit is trash and I doubt that Apten is going to send a me a new one (if ya wanna play ya gotta pay).
So, do I buy another Eaton and have it ported (will it happen again)? Order a KB or wait for a Whipple?
Either way I'm going to pull the rotors, tidy things up and put it back together while I make up my mind. I figure the damage is done and it can't get much worse.
Maybe I'll just build a fresh motor (12% leak is not really good). After I swap it out, I'll have a set of Manley H-Beams for sale with about 3000 miles on them.
Damn, I've got other fish to fry, I thought my truck was finished.:bm:
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 413
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From: Kihei, HI (most of the time)
You are not the first to have this problem. It appears that the case may warp under load, allowing the rotors to contact the top of the case adjacent to the inlet area. Another thread was started on the same problem about three days ago. I have a totally stock blower that has the teflon worn off in the very same area, so the problem does occur in unported blowers. That stock blower was being run against a 4# lower with a 2.8 upper with the boost bypass. I think that the blower was designed to be stable under the 8# load it sees in the stock condition, but when it starts seeing 16 psi, the force moves the rotors upward.
Obviously, under boost the load on the rotors is very unbalanced. They have a near vacuum above them on the inlet side and 16# below them. Atmospheric pressure is about 16 psi. It feels normal to us, but we are breathing air under pressure. A vacuum is the absence of that pressure, or minus 16 psi. So, iIf we figure the rotor pack is 5 inches wide and 10 inches long (that's a rough guess - not measured), the area is 50 square inches. If we have 16 pounds per square inch below and even a half vacuum above ( or minus 8 pounds psi), the rotor pack is being pushed upward with a force of 1200 pounds. Here's where the installation torque and the design of the intake maniforld get critical. If the bolts are not torqued to spec, the blower is going to distort - not much, but enough to be a problem. The use of a torque wrench on the installation, torquing all the bolts to 16 ft/lb and then taking them all to 33 ft/lb in the proper sequence, may be more critical than it appears. I also think the rear rotor bearings need to be kept fresh and tight in applicatiions with more than stock boost and higher blower speed.
Do a seach using the key words "blower bolt torque" in the Lightning forum. There's a lot of info there.
Oh, the issue of KB vs. Whipple? We will all have pretty good idea in a couple months. Whipple is not a new company and they've got a lot of blowers out there. Their stuff is good. I think the Lightning version is going to work very well.
Obviously, under boost the load on the rotors is very unbalanced. They have a near vacuum above them on the inlet side and 16# below them. Atmospheric pressure is about 16 psi. It feels normal to us, but we are breathing air under pressure. A vacuum is the absence of that pressure, or minus 16 psi. So, iIf we figure the rotor pack is 5 inches wide and 10 inches long (that's a rough guess - not measured), the area is 50 square inches. If we have 16 pounds per square inch below and even a half vacuum above ( or minus 8 pounds psi), the rotor pack is being pushed upward with a force of 1200 pounds. Here's where the installation torque and the design of the intake maniforld get critical. If the bolts are not torqued to spec, the blower is going to distort - not much, but enough to be a problem. The use of a torque wrench on the installation, torquing all the bolts to 16 ft/lb and then taking them all to 33 ft/lb in the proper sequence, may be more critical than it appears. I also think the rear rotor bearings need to be kept fresh and tight in applicatiions with more than stock boost and higher blower speed.
Do a seach using the key words "blower bolt torque" in the Lightning forum. There's a lot of info there.
Oh, the issue of KB vs. Whipple? We will all have pretty good idea in a couple months. Whipple is not a new company and they've got a lot of blowers out there. Their stuff is good. I think the Lightning version is going to work very well.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 705
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i remember sal (lightning tuner) making a post a long time ago about talking to somone close to the production of our superchagers... Can't find it now though....
It has somthing to do with the blower spinning at x rpm's and the rotors would flex. Mabey the case if flexing also on the apten ports now allowing the grinding...
Who knows. I am glad I wasn't planning apten till spring.
It has somthing to do with the blower spinning at x rpm's and the rotors would flex. Mabey the case if flexing also on the apten ports now allowing the grinding...
Who knows. I am glad I wasn't planning apten till spring.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 689
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From: Warwick R.I.
well i just searched this cause i think or thought that my apten port came back with a bad bearing somewhere
this does not make me feel good
but i am not driving mine till i can figure out whats going on
this does not make me feel good
but i am not driving mine till i can figure out whats going on