Yeah somebody comment, lets see Charts overlapping each other as well as hear about track times and driveability. Then somebody can choke on some crow, The Pro Charger might dominate on the topend or down the 1/4 mile, but on a street driven truck its going to lack the zippyness compared to current blowers on the market.

You think a KB or Eaton takes alot of HP to spin ? Look at the drive ratio on a F1.

 

The step-up ratio is not relevant to drive HP. High step-ups are used to optimize pulley combos. The drive HP is determined by the mass of the things spun, friction in the drive system, and the efficiency of the compressor wheel/screws/lobes.

Take our Eaton, add 50% to the gear ratio, subtract 50% from the drive pulleys, and it takes the same drive HP.

 

Step up does too play into how much HP us takes to spin a blower. Think of it as running 3.08s in your truck vs 3.73s, couple that with the huge crank pulley(So you dont have to spin the motor to 7000) you guys are talking about running and your robbing power to produce power. Of course there is always the 1/2 a$$ed fix to cure that problem, the Shot of N20 to get the slug going.

If Procharger is such a bada$$ blower and will produce all sorts of power, Why is it that Procharger cars get a 100-150lb weight break and get to run between 100-120 more cubic inches than a Turbo car ? The inlet on a Turbo must be 3.68" yet Pro Charger gets to have a 5.5" inch inlet. You tell me which produces more power You guys wanna make power, do it right the 1st time slap a T67 for Street,T76 for Street Strip or a T88 for all out boogie.

 

Your analogy is -- once again -- WRONG. That's right -- WRONG. Step-up ratio and final drive is apples and oranges. Swap from a 3.08 to 3.73s, then change every gear in the tranny 82.6%. Guess what, brain surgeon? You have the exact same acceleration.

A centrifugal, irrespective of its step-up ratio, takes far less drive HP than any other kind of supercharger. Period. I am not speculating. I am not guessing. I am not talking out of my *ss. Step-up ratio has nothing to do with drive HP. Anyone possessed of normal reasoning abilities should be able to see this.

Look, you obviously have an agenda here -- to promote turbos. Great. I think turbos are wonderful. Nitrous is wonderful. Hamburgers are wonderful. Jesus is wonderful. I wish someone would make a turbo kit. I'm sure it would make huge power. But that's not what we are talking about here.

So would you please just put the pins back in the grenades and sit there quietly until you have something intelligent to add?

 

Tim, you have beat this issue to death.Its actually pretty clear,You asked a question and you got an answer.The answer is NO . You are not going to force feed us all kinds o finformation and expect us to change out mind.We obviously are not going to.WE as a community would NOT buy one for $4k. This may not be the answer you were looking for but it sure is what has happeded here

 

Not for nothing Ray but your making an assumption off of like 20 different people that replied. There are plenty of guys that spent the cake on the works, and the kb, and now the magnum blowers, i'm sure there are plenty of people that are willing to spend 4k on an centrif kit. The fact of the matter is that

1) Some people have plenty of money, and are willing to spend it
2) Some people have plenty of credit cards and are willing to use them
3)And there are thousands of people who own lightnings that don't ever see the internet or this forum for that matter.
4)And there's always the whole "keeping up with the Jones'" scenario too.

To answer your question Tim, I for one would not be interested due to financial restrictions. But if I had an endless bank account...........why not!!!

 

Sometimes money is not an issue...

Would just rather spend that kind of money else where...

 

Agreed, but the topic is would you buy it for 4k. If i had 4k extra laying around i would try it.

I understand completely. For 4k, i'm happy with what I have now.....so I'd send the cash to pay off the mods I just bought and my vacation in August!!!

 

Cents take a lot less power to drive then Eatons and even less then twin screws. Gearing has zero to do with this.
One of the primary laws of physics is that energy isn't created or destroyed, it goes changes states. On an electric oven, the electric power "used" isn't really used. Its turned into heat. That heat goes into what you're cooking and the enviorment.
The HP to drive a SC goes somewhere. In reality there are 3 places it goes:
1) Drive friction. This is the heat of the belt rubbing on the pulley and the heat the bearings give off. These are probably pretty even between the 3 blowers.
2) Pontenital energy. Compressing air, even perfectly adds energy too it. Releasing the air back to ambient pressure could do work. For a given boost pressure, this hp is the same across all the SCs.
3) Heat into the compressed air. Compressing air, even prefectly, will heat up. No compressor can compress air perfectly. They all add more heat during the process then is needed. This is really the only difference between the three. So in reality to test which blower requires the least amount of HP to drive you only need to know the outlet temp at a give pressure.

 

Exactly

 

Yep, me too!

 

Hehe ignore the facts and cloud them with crap, O wait your a lawyer

The Lawyer part is a joke I respect you Tim, I just get a kick outta the clouded information that has been posted in this thread. Im sorry for stepping into your thread, the only reason I did was it was already in the pooper. Good Luck and I look forward to this truck that is going to set the world on fire.

 

First of all im not making an assumption.There are hard facts printed at the top of this page called a '"POLL" that clearley show not many people would do it.I hope you are not making an assumption yourself about the performance of cent S/Cs.Ive installed them myslef and have seen the results.Enough said on that.

Second, i get a kick out of some of you local guys, Ive been asked for more favors by you Local lightning guys for years now and have NEVER asked one of you for anything.But you guys still find a way to give negative vibes online because you want to fit in or some other strange reason.
I think i get it,im not a die hard JDM fan like most in the NE but thats another story.

There was no reason for you (tallimecca) to pin me out of the MANY who have argued this issue other than just being ignorant.You choose to be how you want to be thats fine but i personally try not to get into pi$$ing contest with local guys because we actually have met and have the abilty to help each other out and share the same track and such.Therefore i persoanlly would try to avoid negativity with local guys but you do what you want.

peace.

 

 

The topic has only been "beat to death" if you define the topic as "Who would buy a centrifugal system for $4K." That topic was dead within hours after the first post.

Not that the answer is at all clear to me. There may well be enough people willing to buy one. But without some proof of massive power gains on a Lightning, it does not appear that people would be willing to take a $4 leap of faith. I thought that the 120+ peak power gains proven with a 16 PSIG-to-16 PSIG Eaton-to-ProCharger swap might be enough. I was wrong. BTW, write this down. It may be the last time that you ever see a lawyer put that in writing.

I have no problem with that, especially since the twin screws have a proven track record -- and it is entirely possible that the twin screw will prove to be the best choice for all but very high boost drag applications.

The pioneers take the arrows. Maybe opinions will change once some centrifugals get installed and proven.

However, that this no longer what this thread (or at least my participation in it) is about -- it has morphed into debunking disinformation about centrifugals. Having been immersed in the subject on the theoretical and practical level for six years now, as well as witnessing phenominal power and track performance gains with centrifugals, it irritates me to see the same old nonsense repeated.

There are two main reasons why you don't see -- and probably never will see -- centrifugals in a mass-market OEM application. (1) Noise. Gear-driven cents are noisy little buggers, even at idle. But most around here appreciate that as the music of HP. (2) Linear boost. Unless you go to WOT, the raging power of a centrifugal does not come to life. Since most people use WOT rarely if ever, cents would not have the same impact on a test drive, where many people are afraid to stomp a not-yet-broken-in vehicle.

My theory was that these boards contained a sufficient number of one percenters who would be willing to sacrifice noise and off-idle grunt for a 100 rwHP gain. I was wrong -- or at least wrong in the absence of ironclad proof of that gain on our 5.4s.

Soon enough, there will be documented proof of centrifugal performance on Ls. It may be that the twin screws continue to be the most satisfactory solution.

But it does not seem that the twin screw can post the numbers of a centrifugal. Although the comparison is not at the same point, and we are only talking PEAK power (as opposed to average power across the powerband), at 9 PSIG on a stock L motor, the KB produced 364 rwHP to the Eaton's 349, a 15 rwHP gain. In contrast, at 16 PSIG, the 03 Cobra ProCharger system produced a 120 rwHP gain over the same blower. With the KB running at 16 PSIG on a Lightning motor, the KB produced only 449 rwHP, while a 16 PSIG 03 ProCharged Cobra was putting down nearly 550 rwHP. While not a scientifically valid comparison, that's still a 100 rwHP difference on engines that have pretty close to the same base HP rating (yeah, I know that the Cobra revs higher and is more underrated than the 5.4). So it seems a safe bet that a cent can produce more PEAK power than a KB on an L motor.

But that's all just bench racing. As stated above, the true test will be when the two dyno charts are posted on top of each other -- or tested side-by-side at the track.

I'm keeping an open mind.