Feedback On Built 5.4 Pistons???
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Olive Branch, MS, Memphis Burb
Neal,
Jimmy had piston noise to varying degrees from 2 built motors that had CP pistons. He just had it rebuilt with Mahle pistons and it is finally quiet.
Here is a link to the thread with pics.
http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread...5&pagenumber=1
Jimmy had piston noise to varying degrees from 2 built motors that had CP pistons. He just had it rebuilt with Mahle pistons and it is finally quiet.
Here is a link to the thread with pics.
http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread...5&pagenumber=1
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
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From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
HI!... LTNBOLT : Thanks for the link. I have done some more research and it looks like CP pistons are not very like around my area to most of the engine builders I have used over the years. I will definately look into those MAHLE pistons. I went to their site and they seem to have a good piston. I'll call them tomorrow and get some additional info. Thanks again. 
P.S : You don't happen to know what he paid for the MAHLE piston/ring/pin kit do you?????
P.S : You don't happen to know what he paid for the MAHLE piston/ring/pin kit do you?????
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 1,823
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From: Hollywood, CA
Neal, what is the strength of Manley Platinum connecting rods? I think they hold a ton of hp, if I'm not mistaken. I am by no means an expert, though, but I have heard good things about those rods.
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Joined: Dec 2000
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From: Auburn Wa
Neal
The cylinder heads play a big part in the piston choice. I saw the pictures of your cylinder heads and the swirl bump/emission dam had been milled out if I'm not mistaken.
My heads still have the bump in them but there was enough reshaping done in the combustion chamber that it still opened them up by 5cc. Also the valve shape has big effect on this.
My compression ratio with the 17cc dish calculates to around 8.2
and that is with the heads lightly cut twice now and the block deck lightly cut once. When I say lightly I mean around .005 .
The cylinder heads play a big part in the piston choice. I saw the pictures of your cylinder heads and the swirl bump/emission dam had been milled out if I'm not mistaken.
My heads still have the bump in them but there was enough reshaping done in the combustion chamber that it still opened them up by 5cc. Also the valve shape has big effect on this.
My compression ratio with the 17cc dish calculates to around 8.2
and that is with the heads lightly cut twice now and the block deck lightly cut once. When I say lightly I mean around .005 .
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Alabama
I have Diamond Racing forged pistons in my built shortblock. VT Competition engines built my shortblock assembly.
My pistons are noisy when first started, but within 3-4 minutes they are completely quiet like stock pistons.
My pistons are noisy when first started, but within 3-4 minutes they are completely quiet like stock pistons.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
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From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
HI!... Well I e-mailed JOHN GOODWIN at MAHLE pistons and this is the response I got today :
*****
Neal , thank you for your interest in our product . Our PowerPak pistons are boost and nitrous friendly as they were designed with that in mind . We had 15lbs as boost level target and 300 hp as a nitrous target .I consider those to be "safe" numbers , what you do beyond that is mostly tuning issues. Applying nitrous to boosted applications has the benefit of cooling the intake charge and is generally safe to the extent of one's tuning capabilities .Any piston is at the mercy of fuel/air/ignition and the tuner's proficiency. Ford has chosen our forged 5.4 piston for the GT Supercar and the next Lightning.
MAHLE Motorsport pistons are known to be among the quietest pistons in the industry.Our oem experience has given our engineers alot of data to work with on that end .
All of our PowerPak pistons have phosphate and Graphal coatings to enhance the break-in procedure and reduce friction and scuffing.
We choose to use round wire locks because they are superior to other options.All of the F1 , NASCAR ,Dirt Late Model , and most other high profile engine builders request the round wire.Other companies charge for them as an upgrade , we choose to offer them at no additional charge..
We do not sell direct to the public , I suggest you call Pro Power Performance in Ft Lauderdale or C.V. Products in Thomasville , N.C. for a price quote .
954-491-6988 is Pro Power's number and 800-448-1223 is the number for C.V.
Best Regards,
John Goodwin
MAHLE Motorsports,Inc.,Sales,John Goodwin
270 Rutledge Road Unit B , Fletcher ,N.C. 28732 Telephone (888)255-1942 Fax (828)650-0819
john.goodwin@us.Mahle.com Web : us.mahle.com *****
Sounds like they have a good product. I just have to get a price now for their piston kit.
*****
Neal , thank you for your interest in our product . Our PowerPak pistons are boost and nitrous friendly as they were designed with that in mind . We had 15lbs as boost level target and 300 hp as a nitrous target .I consider those to be "safe" numbers , what you do beyond that is mostly tuning issues. Applying nitrous to boosted applications has the benefit of cooling the intake charge and is generally safe to the extent of one's tuning capabilities .Any piston is at the mercy of fuel/air/ignition and the tuner's proficiency. Ford has chosen our forged 5.4 piston for the GT Supercar and the next Lightning.
MAHLE Motorsport pistons are known to be among the quietest pistons in the industry.Our oem experience has given our engineers alot of data to work with on that end .
All of our PowerPak pistons have phosphate and Graphal coatings to enhance the break-in procedure and reduce friction and scuffing.
We choose to use round wire locks because they are superior to other options.All of the F1 , NASCAR ,Dirt Late Model , and most other high profile engine builders request the round wire.Other companies charge for them as an upgrade , we choose to offer them at no additional charge..
We do not sell direct to the public , I suggest you call Pro Power Performance in Ft Lauderdale or C.V. Products in Thomasville , N.C. for a price quote .
954-491-6988 is Pro Power's number and 800-448-1223 is the number for C.V.
Best Regards,
John Goodwin
MAHLE Motorsports,Inc.,Sales,John Goodwin
270 Rutledge Road Unit B , Fletcher ,N.C. 28732 Telephone (888)255-1942 Fax (828)650-0819
john.goodwin@us.Mahle.com Web : us.mahle.com *****
Sounds like they have a good product. I just have to get a price now for their piston kit.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
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From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
HI!... As it states in the quoted e-mail I posted, they won't give any prices due to they don't sell to the public. My engine builder deals with MAHLE and will get me a price quote on MONDAY. I also have a local performance shop getting me a price quote as well. I'll let you guys know what the prices are.
On a side note I sat down with my engine builder and we discussed about my BUILT 5.4 and whats going into it. It was interesting to find out all the problems that the MANELY rods have. He told me if I wanted MANELY rods in my engine that he would NOT build it then. I guess he has seen a lot of problems with them. Which I won't go into detail here. He told me if you want a cheap very reliable "H" beam rod than the EAGLE ESP rod is the way to go. Depending on price, I'm pretty sure right now I'm going to go with MAHLE "POWERPAK" pistons.
http://www.mahleinc.com/home_inc.nsf...ument&,1123566
On a side note I sat down with my engine builder and we discussed about my BUILT 5.4 and whats going into it. It was interesting to find out all the problems that the MANELY rods have. He told me if I wanted MANELY rods in my engine that he would NOT build it then. I guess he has seen a lot of problems with them. Which I won't go into detail here. He told me if you want a cheap very reliable "H" beam rod than the EAGLE ESP rod is the way to go. Depending on price, I'm pretty sure right now I'm going to go with MAHLE "POWERPAK" pistons.
http://www.mahleinc.com/home_inc.nsf...ument&,1123566
Senior Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,300
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From: Richmond, VA, USA
Originally posted by Neal
It was interesting to find out all the problems that the MANELY rods have. He told me if I wanted MANELY rods in my engine that he would NOT build it then. I guess he has seen a lot of problems with them.
It was interesting to find out all the problems that the MANELY rods have. He told me if I wanted MANELY rods in my engine that he would NOT build it then. I guess he has seen a lot of problems with them.
If you mean MANLEY, then I say: B.S.
Basically every "built" motor on this board is using Manley rods, and there hasn't been a single problem that I can remember. I've also heard that the Eagles and Manleys for our engines are from the same chinese casting, but I can't verify that.
Originally posted by Neal
Which I won't go into detail here.
Which I won't go into detail here.
later,
chris
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,660
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From: Miami / NYC
Neal if your engine builder thinks that, I would switch engine builders.
Manley, Eagle, Scat, and ModMax Rods are all IDENTICAL
The only difference is that Manleys use standard ARP rod bolts, while the rest use stronger ARP 2000 rod bolts.
Manley, Eagle, Scat, and ModMax Rods are all IDENTICAL
The only difference is that Manleys use standard ARP rod bolts, while the rest use stronger ARP 2000 rod bolts.
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,031
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From: irving, texas
id have to agree with superfords on this one. manley is proven. eagle is the same rod (except maybe the esp? im not sure what that means). i went with modmax's which is again the same as manley, except arp 2000 bolts are included. i have yet to see anyone running these rods with a failure yet.
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Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
HI!... This is why I didn't want to talk about it. I knew everyone thats running the Manley's would start whinning. I discussed this with him and was told the EAGLE ESP rods are forged seperately from the others. Not the same mold. Also he was telling me that the MANLEY's are way off out of the box. He took two brand new sets of MANLEY's out of the boxes and weighed them. There was a difference of 5.5 grams between the lightest and the heaviest rods in the 1ST box and a little over 5 grams from the second box. We did the same with the eagles and there was 1 gram on 1st box and 1.8 on the second. He blueprints the rods to under a gram. Say what you will, but I'll be running EAGLE ESP "H" beam rods in my 5.4. As for going to a different engine builder......... I doubt it. He's the best around here and most other places I've seen. He even built my 713H.P N/A 408 stroker that's in my RANGER and it has EAGLE ESP rods in it too.