nevermind

 

I agree. I don't care what people who have no experience on it have to say. The questions were for those (if any) who have tried the reflash and what results they had. On the predator, I wasn't really considering it until someone threw out there that it was no different than a reflash, when from what I've read, it is. I do not know for sure if Sal has any experience with the reflash or not, and believe me I'll get his personal input before I make any decisions. In that post you linked to, Sal said that it would take a while to adapt to new mods. I read in another thread that a guy that tested it said it didnt take time, and he had dyno results.
Maybe the reflash acts the way Sal says it does though and the guy didnt get the full benefit out of the new mods since the reflash hadn't adapted yet I don't know. I just think there hasn't been enough testing done with it to come to a set conclusion, from what I've read.

Maybe what I'll do is keep my psp flip chip, dyno with that, reflash the stock ecu, then dyno the psp chip again after adjustments have been made according to the first dyno, and see after all that, which makes more power, which is safer, etc. I feel like the chip will make the most power, but the reflash might be safer. I guess if I choose to do this we'll find out, I have a couple of weeks to decide now.

 

I may be getting confused. Let me see if I am

1. reflash = installing a program on a pcm so you don't have to use a chip.

Now the sct does this, the predator does this and so do some other people who want to remain nameless. I'll also be doing it next week with the sct pro racer package from SCT. So maybe when you ask if a reflash is better you should ask if a reflash by nameless person is better so everyone doesn't get confused.

I don't know the nameless person so I can't say one way or the other how good of a tuner that person is. I'm not knocking said person.

 

I think the most important thing to do no matter what solution that you choose is to dyno the truck after the modifications to make sure your air/fuel ratio is safe. You don't want to be hunting for a new motor because everyone online told you a reflash is "the perfect tune".

--Steele

 

Let me make this as simple as possible. The reflash you get from mark is not like any chip. The chip overrides the stock function of the PCM's peramiters.

The reflash is not a override. It has been modified....The stock Ford strategy has been changed, re-written if you will, to give the calibration peramiters extended tables and other changes are made.

skennett, Here's a good example. I can order a chip from any of the tuners. I give them my mod information and where I live.

I can drive my truck in my state and those around the same elevation. When I go to take a trip to Denver with their chip, lower pulley, ported blower and the elevation changes to 5,280ft above sea level. I'm going to have a BIG problem....Then what? pull the chip and baby it driving through the rockys at 11,000.ft going through Eisenhower tunnel? Don't think so!

You think your not going to have to get on it going up those steep grades under load? You will be lucky to have an engine left half way with detonation beating your pistons to the sound of a drum roll.

You think the predator will be able to compensate that much?
As for a chip! Your done! You're limited and rely on the tuner more than once. I don't! I paid once and it covrs a broad range of mods.

I can get my reflashed PCM and drive with all my mods at that elevation in Denver or in California, race it at there tracks and not have to send for a new predator file or chip. I'm limited by my injectors and stock fuel system. I don't even need to worry about the maf peging. I never lose the original dependability and function of the vehicle or the PCM. It will keep my a/f right where it was set.

Now....Lets see if any of the tuners can guarentee they have a single chip or file that can do that? If you say there is such a chip. I'll put it up against the reflash. I'll be in California and Denver doing emissions testing soon. I'll be driving my 01 L. Any chip tuners care to take up the challenge?

Ford only has the strategy and calibration written to perform as needed. Not for max hp. The ability is there to improve the software. It's not that the PCM knows it has a 2# or a 6#. It reads the MAF and compensates off of tables that have been modified. Not hard to understand.

I've seen dynos with LM-1 a/f fuel trace on pulley changes and the a/f stayed right on. This works.

I'm not sticking up for the vendor that sells the service. I'm arguing the fact this is reliable, dependable and does work.....

Mark at BOP can step in and answer your questions. I can see how this is a threat to the tuners. Not getting $$$ on reflashing chips or sending new files everytime a person makes little mod changes to their trucks.

01svtL, your better off listning to the people that have the reflash. Get their opinion. Tuners have their loyal followers that only believe the guy that gave them their first 15-20 additional hp is and always will be the MAN. Thisis very simple to understand.

 

Yea I'd like to listen to the people who have had it done, as well as get a tuner's input. But, where are these people who have had it done? You are one of them, where are the rest? I need their replies and results as well.

 

This is a tuners competition. Here's a link. You can ask there also!

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=10080

I'm not saying chips or predators are bad. I'm not saying the reflash is the best for every application. The reflash can be made to give you the most if you chose to be that aggressive.

I chose to set my customers up with a tune that will give the most out of their modifications and be on the safe side.

No matter where they drive to. Reliability and dependabilty for a few less hp is fine with them.

 

A chip modifes the same tables, which are used with the MAF to control A/F.

AND

If the reflash is so perfect how come there is already at least one blown motor from it ?

This was discussed at LENGTH about 6 months ago and in one of the threads the guys who were actually doing the reflash came on and corrected some of the urban legends that were flying around about the process....

01svtL - Its likley worth a search to find those old threads...

Doug

 

I thought I did? Do your research, dyno the results, and make sure it's safe.

Doesn't get much simpler than that.

--Steele

 

I have been away and look what thread subject comes up. Reflshing works period. Guys that say not are just lying to themselves. My past dyno speaks for itself.

https://www.f150online.com/galleries...6676&anum=3451

this was done with a 90 shot of nitrous and I didn't switch programs on a chip . i later pushed it to a 110 shot. adaptive strats possibly? I told them the most nirous I would be running is a 75 shot.

Who has blown their motor? I think I remember hearing about this and the guy was running an ungoldy amount of boost through a KB on a stock block and he admitted that it was too much. A reflash doesn't replace common sense.

 

That's ridiculous! You know it's not the act of 'reflashing' that blew up the alleged motor it's the 'tune' and/or a bad part.

Both Chips and 'reflashing' have plus and minus's. As suggested, do some reading and pick what is best for what you want.

What's really important is the tune. Your time would be best spent picking a tuner that knows what they are doing and there's not many of them.

 

just one quick question.

once a pcm is reflashed, can you then add a chip to it which will again override the reflashed pcm specs?

I'm thinking that realistically, ford stock pcm tuning is very very safe for the motor. With that in mind plus some adaptive strategy it can adapt for changes in air temp, alttitude as well as other variables . So if you take it from sea level to 12000 ft, the tune for 0 ft is still safe enough for 12000 feet, and immediately after entering 12000 ft it will self adjust its tune minorly to accomdate the changes. If the reflash can do this of course if its tuned to the edge its still gonna blow, but if your well in the safe zone, it should accomdate nicely, whereas a chip will not? Of course this isn't a "perfect tune" that will take whatever you throw at it, but it should be more accomodating. Of course a bed tune will destory anything is you try hard enough.

Does this make sense? Or am i way off here?

 

Those are good questions and prolly wont get answered here without a pissing match. You should goto http://forums.modulardepot.com/forum...?s=&forumid=31 and ask. I think its a little more complicated than you think and Im sure they will better answer it.

 

Dave,
I am not trying to turn this into a flame war, but I reflash PCM's every day for customers and I've seen strategy books (full of ladder logic) and this golden ford tuning software you speak of. Saying that there is more tuning capabilities in a flash than a chip is just not correct. I can change adaptive strategy all day long using chips. Before we muddy the watters online, drop me an email and we can talk about this. We probably have a common connection.

Brian

 

Doug, your telling me that the chip performs the the same function, and the tuners have the same access to all the same peramiters as a Ford calibrator...That is B.S. A cal guid is thicker than a phone book.

Why don't you take your summer tuned chip and go out in 20deg weather and I'll do the same with my reflash, same mods and see who still has the rods in their block after a WOT run up to 120mph.

That is my point of the reflash. I get full advantage without having to have two or three chips. Even with a predator tune you need to get a different file for a 20-30 deg difference.

Also, If the chip is capable of modifying the the tables as you say, and perform like the reflash. Why were all the tuners charging for all these chip reflashes? Funny how when the reflash came out, some of the chip people started throwing all sorts of reasons why it can't function as advertised. Now you say the chip does the same function?

Right!....You know how much tuners made off chip reflashes? Countless $$$!!

Keep talking doug...I knew a blown engine would jump into this at some point. Do you have actaul proof it was a reflashed PCM that was the cause? You should make sure you have the evidence and not speculate due to the fact you are sticking up for the BIG three....They pay their dues to the board don't they?

You can't go in the PCM and see what was changed in the reflash. You would need the Ford calibration equipment. In order to do that. You'd need to get a RCON from Lockheed Martin. Then you'd need the Ford software.

That the tuners don't have unless a Ford or Roush employee gave it to one and showed them how to use it and gave all the cal guides for the SVT and mustang vehicles.

See doug, You know chips. You know little about the factory Strategy and calibration.....I hate being involved with this. Many will buy the new 05 Mustang and not relize it has a new kind of PCM. No access for a chip. The only way to change or override the peramiters will be reflash only. It wil be like that on all new Ford vehicles starting with 05 models.