Sorry,

I'm calling this one like I see it. This so called attempt to make this thread seem like a harmless adult debate over physics is pure B.S....Sal's question started exactly what he wanted it to...Put a cloud of doubt over another tuners idea or product....

Vendor "Y" shows a new part in development saying he noticed improved results....Now vendor X who isn't a dummy questions this design....Why? To make vendor "Y" product look like it can't possibly work if the logic of the design isn't explained. Or satisfactory!

BigFan and Grey03 put it in the most simple terms to explain just how in theory the design works. People don'ty listen and just keep harpin. Sal, when johnny posts the results showing the gains, why don't you be the man to explain why it's working.

Look at the intake design on the 00 Cobra R. Look at some of the fabricated intakes for the turbos. Get off it sal...Johnny doesn't get on here and question your parts. If you ever design anything other than pulleys and chip tunes....I never get on here and go at anyone...This B.S tactic showed me the person you are....

It obviouse why you said what you said. This is the kind of crap that brings this board down in the gutter. The die hard customers start pairing off with others trying to explain the idea and we have people going at it. The blind loyalists still keep harping cause their fearless leader put doubt on it.....Man this is crap!

I'm now gald I didn't help you with the information you asked for last year. You won't be hearing my credit card number again sal...

It was a classless act to go at it this way....Just to keep your loyal customers in check! Not spending their cash with another vendor...So it seems!

Flam suite on and don't care what the replies are. It is what it is, I said what I said....I won't be looking back at this. I said my peace!

 

A point worth mentioning is the space between the end of the rotors and the blower case. That big void is wasted power. If the intake air is not dumping directly onto the rotors you are losing potential power. Hence the Magnum-Power blower case, rear entry vs top, etc.

The rest of this post is just like the "old" days. Someone posts documented data/results and it get picked apart by people that for the most part have no idea what they are looking at.

A better education is had by looking and listening rather than talking.

 

Exactly what I said in the third post..."My feeling is looking at the picture #1 and #2 there is a big difference between the inlet being mostly above the rotors with the stock setup and with JLs setup it may allow more air to come back behind the rotors easier. "

 

David, you of all people, especially in your field, surprise me as to your ignorance and close mindedness to this whole issue. If I were not a vendor, and were just a regular Lightning owner, this subject would just get debated as it has been, with the exception of those who feel to turn it into a vendor vs vendor issue. But those who feel the need to make it some kind of "attack", have nothing better to do than cause the exact problems they are bitching about. You are now one of those people.

You made the comment- "Good job johnny, Glad to see your working on new prototype parts for us and and not just relying on a tune and a bottle...". This was obviously a shot at me, as you have voiced your negative thoughts towards nitrous use many times in the past. Once again I am surprised at your ignorance for the work involved in making the combination I choose to run work. It's kind of funny really, about the whole nitrous thing. JDM said all sorts of crap about me running nitrous in 01, and what happened- he went to it as well. All his customers were on the same bandwagon of trashing nitrous users, but when he started using it, they all shut up. Now JL has a bottle on his truck (in case you missed that), and the same will happen. Will you say the same thing about him when he hits the 9s, but needed the bottle to do it?

I have no problems with JL selling this product. It doesn't compete with anything I sell. It won't take any money out of my pockets. All I asked was how it was supposed to improve power.

Back to the mature part of the thread...

JJs explaination, it's an interesting theory. The larger plenum creates a "vacuum" through the TB. It makes sense. But that theory also brings up the new question- is the "vacuum" effect causing an increase in airflow into the blower, or is it a byproduct of being a restriction. If you use that same vacuum cleaner example, yes, the flow THROUGH the nozzle is increased, but once past the nozzle the air and suction slows. Anyone who's ever tried to suck up a nut or bolt with certain shop vacs should know what I mean. It gets sucked past the nozzle no problem, but once in the larger hose area, sometimes the vacuum can't draw it into the unit. That's the exact thing I'm questioning.

 

Now back to the mature part but only after you take the shots, right ?

Sal, you were honestly my most respected vendor prior to this subject but my opinion is tarnishing fast. You wanna know why the nut or bolt doesnt go anywhere ? Its because the velocity is what carries that nut or bolt not volume of air. Again you still refuse to get past the fact that the Throttlebody isnt the restriction, the upper intake is.

 

You take shots at me and post links to threads that don't even back up what you claim. I guess that is mature?

 

JJ didnt splain anything Sal, I did.

Back to your statement about once the bolt gets past the nozzle thing, here we go.

Why do the vacumm cleaners at car wash's suck your change from under your floormat from 6 inches away and slam it into the bin that you cant get into? Easy, its because the motor that they have working is easily 100 times more powerful than the one in your home, so with that in mind, dont you think that the KB with the adaptor plate removed is going to be able to use as much air as it is given with the bigger volume upper intake?

Why do they make tunnelram intakes for small block chevy's? Because with huge cams and valves the size of dinner plates your gonna need all the air you can get and the tunnel ram allows a large volume of air to enter the lower intake rather than waiting for the air sitting above the carbs airhorn.

To be honest with you Sal, being that you are a vendor here, it wasnt a good idea to post in JL's thread about this at all. I dont see Tommy coming into your line lock threads asking you why yours is better or if you can explain the physics behind it.

What you should have done is start a thread that would discuss the pro's and con's of larger upper intakes and be done with it.

And bye the way, last time I looked at a picture of a Works blower, that intake was pretty big and flowed really nice to the back of the blower, they didnt just run a narrow flat tube to the inlet now did they?

Thanks for your time.

YA

 

I'm not taking shots, I'm defending myself against those who are trying to make me look bad because I asked a legit question, but I'm a "vendor".

Your statement is exactly what I want more info on. You say it's the volume, not velocity. Why is the upper intake a restriction? The intake carries the area of the TB bore all the way back to the blower. The shape of the oval changes, but has the same area. It gets shorter, but also gets wider, so it keeps the same overall size as the TB. Since there is no point in the intake that's "smaller" than the TB bore, why is it a restriction? If you maintain the same bore size from the TB to the blower, why would making the intake larger improve anything?

 

I started a thread about dimensions of the blower, TB etc and look how I was attacked.
****ing dumb asses

 

Just incase anyone wanted to know

According to the pic’s and dimensions that easterisland provided.

The opening to the blower is 8.37524 square inches

And

A SBTB (BF) has an opening of 9.1137 square inches (taking into account for the shaft)

Hope this helps

Doug

 

ALL A BUNCH OF BEOTCHES. WHO GIVE A SH#T if someone was taking a shot. This is not a 8th grade girls night out sleep over, wasn't this about physics or something.






Oh wait JLP has NOS,,,, Yo Johnny you have my credit card

 

Sal, Again keeping on subject here. I dont have the way of explaining it in scientific terms but lemme ask you this, Why will a head flow more air with a 2inch pipe vs no pipe on the flow bench ? The Head port is smaller than the 2 inch pipe.

 

Dude get your lips off Sals manpole, In alot of your posts on several boards youve made it extremly clear how you feel KB doesnt stand behind their product, How you were sent a Tech specs and KB says different. Even in this post you make references that KB lied about the gains they saw on a throttlebody. You havent said that your not satisfied with KB but you sure do spell it out.

Lemme ask you this, Are you 100% Satisfied with your KB and what made you descide to go with the NOVI 2000 ?

 

Sal,

My ignorance...Your arrogance? Let's get this straight. I don't have a problem with you or anyone else using nitrous. I said that I have more respect for a persons mechanical ability and knowledge that can design or improve parts to go fast without using nitrous. It's truely a engineering feat to get a truck into the 10's without gas. I respect that.

Don't get off the subject. I didn't turn this into a war. I wanted to reveal this thread for what it is.

If I wanted to direct that comment in regards to you I would have put your name on it..Like I did this one...Get it? I'm not sticking up for Johnny. He's his own man and can speak up for himself.

My issue was you posted asking him to prove his protype works...It was obvious what your intent was and I wanted to cut it off before the chit slinging started. It's how all these threads end. I would have done the same thing if it were another vendor.

It's B.S. like this that is making this board a sand box with people always thinking their tuner walks on water....It's keeping an open mind and all of us getting along, to make this board a more enjoyable place for emthusiasts with having two things in common. LIGHTNINGS & GOING FAST!

We don't all have to agree...But keep it respectable. It's starts with the tuners. You all carry weight here.

I don't have it out for you sal....This was not cool and it wasn't an innocent tactic. You know when you question another vendors product, on his thread, a depate always insues after. With the guys on johnnys side running to explain how it could work.

Remember the PCM debate about PCM reflashing???

I can bring up a few others you and your loyal team members jumped on syaing it can't be done! Tell us how it works and maybe we'll believe it...Show the dyno numbers....Blah, blah!

Jerry wasn't wrong on that statement about Lightning owners. It's bad here. It's the..Your stuff is crap without dyno numbers, or flow numbers attitude!!

It's statement like, I'm not a physics major, but that doesn't look like its going to work. Why? My tuner said so!

The debate is a smoke screen to start controversy. Why would you care to have him explain if this is no big deal?...You're not stupid sal....You understand that our engines are pumps with a smaller pump on top.

You said it...A person im my field....That's right! It's my field and I keep an open mind not to judge the functionality of a part by it's looks. Wrong thing to do...I have seen many parts that looked like they would be better off trapping mice then helping an engine perform. I understand how two pumps together can pull enough air to use a large intake like that.

You've been around long enough to know that the T-Body isn't the weak link in the system! If that were the case, the single blade would be showing much higher improvements. It doesn't.

One thing about johnny's products, They are all about getting more power. If it didn't get results he wouldn't have let the cat out of the bag. You can only spray so much gas....Not much mechanical engineering involved in a gas made in a lab.

Enough of this crap. Be a better man than this.....I'll follow in your foot steps! Grey03 hit it on the head....

If you weren't a vendor it would be different....Like I said, you all hold weight here. Just let it drop...You're debating to make the product seem like a design like that can't work. It takes away from the vendor that originated it. Not respectable in my book.

 

another thread bites the dust....


Here is a simple idea.

Why not wait until it is tested and see how it performs.


I'm no genious, however, logically thinking, I don't think JLP would waste time, money and R&D on producing something that doesn't work or doesn't produce more power.


Kinda reminds me of a few months back when Some guy from Apten was talkinga bout porting the eaton, everyone jumped up and doubted it. Look where it is now.

Interesting. eh?


Patients people... Just like every fricking product ever created for the lightning, someone will test it before and after the dyno and the numbers will be forth coming!

Also reminds me of the phenolic spacer debate, Cobra Water pump, Apten Ported Eaton etc.. etc.. etc...


"Do you understand the words coming out of my mouth?"