Took some new pics of the L...
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From: Eddyville, Ky
Took some new pics of the L...
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From: Spring Texas
Re: Took some new pics of the L...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Big Man
Whatcha think?
I think the pictures would look much better if you didn't
shoot the pictures from the East side while the sun is going
down.
Whatcha think?
I think the pictures would look much better if you didn't
shoot the pictures from the East side while the sun is going
down.
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From: Upstate NY
Big Man .... Curious why you opted not to go with the Predator?
Also, I would try to steer you away from the line valve mod...
Oh, I have the same DSG as you. When I looked at your pics and then pics of mine the first thought I had was that long antenna detracts from the look of the truck. I like the stock black antenna with the DSG BUT again, the antenna is waaaaaay to long. Shortening the stock antenna is easy and I found no difference in reception. I went to 24" length. Also, can tell you a brushed aluminum fuel door really sets the DSG off. The fuel door accents the silver wheels and well, looks very good..
As for the 4# pulley and the custom tune.. Geeeeeeez, you will be amazed in the difference in the truck!
Also, I would try to steer you away from the line valve mod...
Oh, I have the same DSG as you. When I looked at your pics and then pics of mine the first thought I had was that long antenna detracts from the look of the truck. I like the stock black antenna with the DSG BUT again, the antenna is waaaaaay to long. Shortening the stock antenna is easy and I found no difference in reception. I went to 24" length. Also, can tell you a brushed aluminum fuel door really sets the DSG off. The fuel door accents the silver wheels and well, looks very good..
As for the 4# pulley and the custom tune.. Geeeeeeez, you will be amazed in the difference in the truck!
Last edited by billarf; Jan 31, 2004 at 07:34 PM.
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From: Eddyville, Ky
Originally posted by billarf
Big Man .... Curious why you opted not to go with the Predator?
Also, I would try to steer you away from the line valve mod...
Oh, I have the same DSG as you. When I looked at your pics and then pics of mine the first thought I had was that long antenna detracts from the look of the truck. I like the stock black antenna with the DSG BUT again, the antenna is waaaaaay to long. Shortening the stock antenna is easy and I found no difference in reception. I went to 24" length. Also, can tell you a brushed aluminum fuel door really sets the DSG off. The fuel door accents the silver wheels and well, looks very good..
As for the 4# pulley and the custom tune.. Geeeeeeez, you will be amazed in the difference in the truck!
Big Man .... Curious why you opted not to go with the Predator?
Also, I would try to steer you away from the line valve mod...
Oh, I have the same DSG as you. When I looked at your pics and then pics of mine the first thought I had was that long antenna detracts from the look of the truck. I like the stock black antenna with the DSG BUT again, the antenna is waaaaaay to long. Shortening the stock antenna is easy and I found no difference in reception. I went to 24" length. Also, can tell you a brushed aluminum fuel door really sets the DSG off. The fuel door accents the silver wheels and well, looks very good..
As for the 4# pulley and the custom tune.. Geeeeeeez, you will be amazed in the difference in the truck!
Also, why would you steer me away from line mod valve? Seems to be everyones choice as one of their first mods. Shouldn't it help the tranny?
PS - Pics to big for you Odin?
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From: Upstate NY
FTVB vs Line Mod Valves
Shift Kits, Line Mod Valves and Accumulators
By Gregg Evans
Developer of the Factory Tech Accumulator
I see a lot of questions about Shift Kits, Line Modulator Boost Valves and Accumulators. As a transmission repairman I’d like to share my thoughts on the subject.
What most people are looking for in transmission strategy is a quicker, firmer shift, or more technically a shorter shift duration. Shift duration is how long it takes for a shift to occur, or the amount of time that the clutches are slipping. A shorter shift duration has a performance feel, and generally is better for the clutches, because the wear on the plates happens during this “slip”. Shortening duration also will reduce heat, which is responsible for most automatic transmission failures. The way to reduce shift duration is to increase the engagement pressure of fluid to the clutch during the shift.
One way to increase pressure in an electronically controlled automatic is to have the PCM (or an aftermarket chip) command the EPC (electronic Pressure Control Solenoid) to increase pressure. Doing this will give the desired result, but at a cost. Many systems could in theory raise and maintain Line Pressure at the expense of either the Lubrication circuit or overworking the pump assembly. By the time symptoms appear of the damage this can do, the damage is done and the repairs can be very expensive. If the lube circuit is starved in order to maintain pressure to the accumulator, the first obvious indication could be when the output shaft welds itself to the rear case bushing, a catastrophic failure that would essentially destroy the transmission. If you have a chip that raises Line Pressure above the factory settings, make sure your tuner has made provisions to avoid this. Also, some transmissions that have used software to raise Line Pressure have shown longer term (12-18 months) damage to the pump assembly caused by the extra load placed on the pump.
The alternative to raising Line Pressure with software is to use a mechanical “shift kit” to raise Modulated Pressure or more simply, a set of valves and springs in the accumulator valve body. The term “Shift Kit” is a trademark of a transmission aftermarket company, so I avoid using it when I can. Since the accumulator is hydraulically “downstream” of the EPC, a mechanical shift kit does not interrupt any lubrication failsafes and since it is using modulated pressure boost (through the Line Modulator Boost Valve) it does not place any additional load on the pump. I have seen 3 basic variations of mechanical shift improvers, a “Line Pressure Mod Valve” ($89-$99), a “3 springs and a valve (about $150, basically a Line Mod Valve and 3 additional springs) and a full accumulator ($225, a Line mod valve, springs, lower control springs and lower control valves installed into a new or rebuilt accumulator valve body). I’m not going to be coy about it, I designed, build and indirectly sell the Factory Tech Accumulator, so instead of trying to act neutral (I’m not) I’ll tell you why I think the kit I build is a better kit, a better value and better for your transmission.
First, an accumulator is a fairly straightforward assembly. In the 4R100, there are 3 shift bores, and 1 line pressure/throttle bore. The 3 shift bores are identical, and different springs are set in them to control the reaction of the accumulator piston to hydraulic pressure, this reaction translates into shift duration on the shift controlled by that bore. All of the bores are fed pressure by the Line Modulator Boost Valve, which reacts to the Throttle Valve, controlling this circuit boosts line pressure into all of the shift bores. If you change the Line Modulator Boost Valve and raise line pressure throughout the body, the individual shift bores are no longer “tuned” properly and the reaction in the shift bores will be out of calibration for the elevated line pressure. For this reason, you need to recalibrate the shift bores, both in the top circuit (above the accumulator piston) and below (the 321-310 circuit). Also, in the 2001 model Lightings, I have found that increased pressure in the lower circuits caused the 321 valves to “side load” or bind up due to asymmetric application of hydraulic pressure during the shift, resulting in a “bang shift”. A Line Mod valve fails to address these conditions. My last (but not least) concern with a Line Mod valve is cost, I don’t think you get much bang for the buck if you pay $89 for a Line Modulator Boost Valve. I’ve been very upfront about this, I use a part very similar to this as part of the Factory Tech/PSP Accumulator. In many ways, I think the part I use is higher quality, my valve and sleeve are made from stainless steel and most of the other ones I see have aluminum sleeves. This can cause problems in the long run too, as the steel valve cycles though an aluminum sleeve, the sleeve wears faster than the valve and after a time this results in pressure loss and sloppy shifts, the condition the part is designed to correct. Also, unlike most of the parts I have personally seen, I use an O-Ring seal to prevent pressure leaking out of the circuit. For all this, my cost for the valve is about $20, if you just want a boost valve, email me, I’ll sell you one for $30, shipping included, and in a year I’ll still be here if you need a new transmission, my Monster Box goes for $1995.
The second popular option is the 3 springs and a valve shift kits. Using this type of kit recalibrates the upper circuits to the elevated line pressure, but still ignores the side loading of the lower control valves. The kit of this type that I have seen also uses an aluminum sleeve/steel valve, and again, the cost is high, for the extra $50 give or take, you get 3 springs and more detailed instructions.
For the Factory Tech Accumulator Shift Kit, I start with a new Accumulator Valve body, Genuine Ford Part (F81Z-7G422-AA, List Price at your dealer is $165 +/-), I add a Line Modulator Boost Valve (about $20), recalibrate the upper circuit with different springs ($12) and upgrade the lower circuit springs and use a valve designed to cycle more freely in the bore to prevent both side loading and binding. (I won’t tell you the price, a guy has to have a few secrets). My lower circuit “310” valve is designed to preload the clutch at less than line pressure, taking the variability out of the shift control. Although it looks very much like the kits available elsewhere, the control of the shift is much more precisely controlled this way, acconting for the much beter performance you get from a Factory Tech Accumulator. My point is, I’ve heard from quite few people who bought the other kits and asked themselves (and me) “Is this it?, I paid $XXXX for this?” I honestly hope that no-one ever got one of my kits and asked that question. The fact is, the final retail price of the Factory Tech Accumulator is less than the list price of the components that go into it, and my distributors makes a profit, too.
And finally, I have my reputation. Read the “mods” on bulletin boards to see who my customers are, do a search for Factory Tech, and after you see who they are, E-Mail them and ask how they like the kit. As of this writing, I’ve sold or given away (for the first year I made them for people I work and didn’t even charge them above what I paid for parts) about 2000 accumulators and exactly one customer has let me know he wasn’t satisfied, and in the end I even satisfied him. (he had installation issues, after the part was in right, he loved it). When the ‘01 Lightings first came out, the side loading issues on the lower circuit became evident, and I replaced 2 units after I redesigned the accumulator. Other than these cases, I know of NO customers who have had complaints about my parts. Just consider this, if you buy XXX parts, and have a problem, what’s the chance of you getting the home number of the guy who designed it? If you bought it used off of E-Bay? If you have one of my parts and you have a problem, I’ll fix it. That means if it needs to be replaced, you get a new one, no matter where you got it, it means that if you have a question about installation or performance that you can’t get a good answer to, you can get in touch with me and if I need to talk to you to make it clear, I’ll send you my home number, or call you. There is no-one selling parts for Lightnings that has built more 4R100s than me, I know this box and I stand behind what I build, because I want to sell you that Monster Box when you want it, when you’re ready for it, not when you grenade the tranny and need it.
Thanks,
Gregg Evans
GBEvans@peoplepc.com
By Gregg Evans
Developer of the Factory Tech Accumulator
I see a lot of questions about Shift Kits, Line Modulator Boost Valves and Accumulators. As a transmission repairman I’d like to share my thoughts on the subject.
What most people are looking for in transmission strategy is a quicker, firmer shift, or more technically a shorter shift duration. Shift duration is how long it takes for a shift to occur, or the amount of time that the clutches are slipping. A shorter shift duration has a performance feel, and generally is better for the clutches, because the wear on the plates happens during this “slip”. Shortening duration also will reduce heat, which is responsible for most automatic transmission failures. The way to reduce shift duration is to increase the engagement pressure of fluid to the clutch during the shift.
One way to increase pressure in an electronically controlled automatic is to have the PCM (or an aftermarket chip) command the EPC (electronic Pressure Control Solenoid) to increase pressure. Doing this will give the desired result, but at a cost. Many systems could in theory raise and maintain Line Pressure at the expense of either the Lubrication circuit or overworking the pump assembly. By the time symptoms appear of the damage this can do, the damage is done and the repairs can be very expensive. If the lube circuit is starved in order to maintain pressure to the accumulator, the first obvious indication could be when the output shaft welds itself to the rear case bushing, a catastrophic failure that would essentially destroy the transmission. If you have a chip that raises Line Pressure above the factory settings, make sure your tuner has made provisions to avoid this. Also, some transmissions that have used software to raise Line Pressure have shown longer term (12-18 months) damage to the pump assembly caused by the extra load placed on the pump.
The alternative to raising Line Pressure with software is to use a mechanical “shift kit” to raise Modulated Pressure or more simply, a set of valves and springs in the accumulator valve body. The term “Shift Kit” is a trademark of a transmission aftermarket company, so I avoid using it when I can. Since the accumulator is hydraulically “downstream” of the EPC, a mechanical shift kit does not interrupt any lubrication failsafes and since it is using modulated pressure boost (through the Line Modulator Boost Valve) it does not place any additional load on the pump. I have seen 3 basic variations of mechanical shift improvers, a “Line Pressure Mod Valve” ($89-$99), a “3 springs and a valve (about $150, basically a Line Mod Valve and 3 additional springs) and a full accumulator ($225, a Line mod valve, springs, lower control springs and lower control valves installed into a new or rebuilt accumulator valve body). I’m not going to be coy about it, I designed, build and indirectly sell the Factory Tech Accumulator, so instead of trying to act neutral (I’m not) I’ll tell you why I think the kit I build is a better kit, a better value and better for your transmission.
First, an accumulator is a fairly straightforward assembly. In the 4R100, there are 3 shift bores, and 1 line pressure/throttle bore. The 3 shift bores are identical, and different springs are set in them to control the reaction of the accumulator piston to hydraulic pressure, this reaction translates into shift duration on the shift controlled by that bore. All of the bores are fed pressure by the Line Modulator Boost Valve, which reacts to the Throttle Valve, controlling this circuit boosts line pressure into all of the shift bores. If you change the Line Modulator Boost Valve and raise line pressure throughout the body, the individual shift bores are no longer “tuned” properly and the reaction in the shift bores will be out of calibration for the elevated line pressure. For this reason, you need to recalibrate the shift bores, both in the top circuit (above the accumulator piston) and below (the 321-310 circuit). Also, in the 2001 model Lightings, I have found that increased pressure in the lower circuits caused the 321 valves to “side load” or bind up due to asymmetric application of hydraulic pressure during the shift, resulting in a “bang shift”. A Line Mod valve fails to address these conditions. My last (but not least) concern with a Line Mod valve is cost, I don’t think you get much bang for the buck if you pay $89 for a Line Modulator Boost Valve. I’ve been very upfront about this, I use a part very similar to this as part of the Factory Tech/PSP Accumulator. In many ways, I think the part I use is higher quality, my valve and sleeve are made from stainless steel and most of the other ones I see have aluminum sleeves. This can cause problems in the long run too, as the steel valve cycles though an aluminum sleeve, the sleeve wears faster than the valve and after a time this results in pressure loss and sloppy shifts, the condition the part is designed to correct. Also, unlike most of the parts I have personally seen, I use an O-Ring seal to prevent pressure leaking out of the circuit. For all this, my cost for the valve is about $20, if you just want a boost valve, email me, I’ll sell you one for $30, shipping included, and in a year I’ll still be here if you need a new transmission, my Monster Box goes for $1995.
The second popular option is the 3 springs and a valve shift kits. Using this type of kit recalibrates the upper circuits to the elevated line pressure, but still ignores the side loading of the lower control valves. The kit of this type that I have seen also uses an aluminum sleeve/steel valve, and again, the cost is high, for the extra $50 give or take, you get 3 springs and more detailed instructions.
For the Factory Tech Accumulator Shift Kit, I start with a new Accumulator Valve body, Genuine Ford Part (F81Z-7G422-AA, List Price at your dealer is $165 +/-), I add a Line Modulator Boost Valve (about $20), recalibrate the upper circuit with different springs ($12) and upgrade the lower circuit springs and use a valve designed to cycle more freely in the bore to prevent both side loading and binding. (I won’t tell you the price, a guy has to have a few secrets). My lower circuit “310” valve is designed to preload the clutch at less than line pressure, taking the variability out of the shift control. Although it looks very much like the kits available elsewhere, the control of the shift is much more precisely controlled this way, acconting for the much beter performance you get from a Factory Tech Accumulator. My point is, I’ve heard from quite few people who bought the other kits and asked themselves (and me) “Is this it?, I paid $XXXX for this?” I honestly hope that no-one ever got one of my kits and asked that question. The fact is, the final retail price of the Factory Tech Accumulator is less than the list price of the components that go into it, and my distributors makes a profit, too.
And finally, I have my reputation. Read the “mods” on bulletin boards to see who my customers are, do a search for Factory Tech, and after you see who they are, E-Mail them and ask how they like the kit. As of this writing, I’ve sold or given away (for the first year I made them for people I work and didn’t even charge them above what I paid for parts) about 2000 accumulators and exactly one customer has let me know he wasn’t satisfied, and in the end I even satisfied him. (he had installation issues, after the part was in right, he loved it). When the ‘01 Lightings first came out, the side loading issues on the lower circuit became evident, and I replaced 2 units after I redesigned the accumulator. Other than these cases, I know of NO customers who have had complaints about my parts. Just consider this, if you buy XXX parts, and have a problem, what’s the chance of you getting the home number of the guy who designed it? If you bought it used off of E-Bay? If you have one of my parts and you have a problem, I’ll fix it. That means if it needs to be replaced, you get a new one, no matter where you got it, it means that if you have a question about installation or performance that you can’t get a good answer to, you can get in touch with me and if I need to talk to you to make it clear, I’ll send you my home number, or call you. There is no-one selling parts for Lightnings that has built more 4R100s than me, I know this box and I stand behind what I build, because I want to sell you that Monster Box when you want it, when you’re ready for it, not when you grenade the tranny and need it.
Thanks,
Gregg Evans
GBEvans@peoplepc.com
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From: Eddyville, Ky
Ok, I'll admit, I know sh!* of transmissions. So flame me if you want, I'll not even wear a flame suit.
Reading all that is like reading a different language to me and now my head hurts.
Sounds like the mod will in some way damage the transmission at some point in time. Im not even for sure if I read that right.
Reading all that is like reading a different language to me and now my head hurts.
Sounds like the mod will in some way damage the transmission at some point in time. Im not even for sure if I read that right.
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From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by Big Man
I hear the Predator comes with aggressive tunes, I don't need that with the temps beinging low as they are. The truck is also my daily driver, can't have it go boom or I'll be screwed.
Also, why would you steer me away from line mod valve? Seems to be everyones choice as one of their first mods. Shouldn't it help the tranny?
PS - Pics to big for you Odin?
I hear the Predator comes with aggressive tunes, I don't need that with the temps beinging low as they are. The truck is also my daily driver, can't have it go boom or I'll be screwed.
Also, why would you steer me away from line mod valve? Seems to be everyones choice as one of their first mods. Shouldn't it help the tranny?
PS - Pics to big for you Odin?
The old way for sure. Lets face it, the Predator is pretty much a chip on an extension cord so to speak that your Ford dealer cannot see or see evidence of. You have a tune emailed to you which goes on the Predator via the computer. You hook the Predator up to your truck and move the tune from you Predators built in chip to the factory chip on your truck. A chip is a chip is a chip.. As far as agressiveness of tune it all depends on the tuner! You get a Predator and have a custom tune done. You buy a chip you do the same thing.. Only with the Predator it only takes the speed of your email to get a new updated tune when you need it. No having the truck down cause your chip is mailed away. Hmmmm, how many guys do you see here and elsewhere crying that the tuner has there chip, sent them the wrong chip, lost there chip, was weeks getting them the chip back, etc.. Well, no such problems with the Predator... at least mailing problems, etc.. Now, the Predator is also a diagnostic tool where a chip is not. You can only have a couple of tunes on a chip BUT with the Predator you can have a hundred if you want. Just have a laptop and you can carry many tunes with you. Hopefully, in the near future the Predator too itself will allow you to have more tunes on it so a laptop would not be needed as much.. Anyway, there are many other reasons for going Predator or a tool like the Predator.. In my opinion, the only time it makes sense to go with a chip is if your favorite tuner cannot send you a custom tune on a Predator. An example is JDM. Of course if you already have a chip it may not be cost effective to ditch the chip. As for you, a new L owner that still has a warranty, well the Predator is the only way you should go. Pull that stock chip on your L and your warranty is history! Use the Predator, your dealer does not know and you still have a warranty. (As long as you reveal no other mods) Anyway, I'm sure some with chips will argue some of my points but reality is the Predator or a similar tool (none yet) is the way to go.. Oh and as far as tuners.. there are top notch guys like Sal at PSP that can give you a custom tune as aggressive or meek and safe as you desire..
Last edited by billarf; Jan 31, 2004 at 09:37 PM.
Oh, and nope i have no financial interest in Diablo Sport..
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From: Eddyville, Ky
For some reason I never thought about sending tunes through e-mail for the Perdator.:o
Ill definitly need a week tune for now. It was below 0 the other night. That with my mods made the stock boost guage peg allmost into the black. Looked like it hit 12 psi on the stock pulley set-up(I sh!* you not).
BTW - Where does the perdator hook up at? Also, will I'll be fine using my stock spark plugs on a 4 pound lower?
Ill definitly need a week tune for now. It was below 0 the other night. That with my mods made the stock boost guage peg allmost into the black. Looked like it hit 12 psi on the stock pulley set-up(I sh!* you not).
BTW - Where does the perdator hook up at? Also, will I'll be fine using my stock spark plugs on a 4 pound lower?
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From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by Big Man
For some reason I never thought about sending tunes through e-mail for the Perdator.:o
Ill definitly need a week tune for now. It was below 0 the other night. That with my mods made the stock boost guage peg allmost into the black. Looked like it hit 12 psi on the stock pulley set-up(I sh!* you not).
BTW - Where does the perdator hook up at? Also, will I'll be fine using my stock spark plugs on a 4 pound lower?
For some reason I never thought about sending tunes through e-mail for the Perdator.:o
Ill definitly need a week tune for now. It was below 0 the other night. That with my mods made the stock boost guage peg allmost into the black. Looked like it hit 12 psi on the stock pulley set-up(I sh!* you not).
BTW - Where does the perdator hook up at? Also, will I'll be fine using my stock spark plugs on a 4 pound lower?
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From: Upstate NY
Originally posted by Big Man
OK, 2 more questions and I'll stop bugin ya.
What plug should I get and how long will they last if I stay with the 4 pounder?
Thanks man
OK, 2 more questions and I'll stop bugin ya.
What plug should I get and how long will they last if I stay with the 4 pounder?
Thanks man
"For a 4lb pulley, I suggest the Denso IT20s. The TR6 in my opinion is to hot. You could run the BR7s if you don't want the Densos. They are one heat range cooler then needed, but are a super tough plug. Whichever plugs you decide on, gap for a 4lb should be .036-.038. Hope this helps. "
Sal - Power Surge Performance
www.lightningparts.com
www.powersurgeperformance.net
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From: Upstate NY
You are not bugin me but since you have asked I will end with this. I suggest you go with a 4# pulley and the Predator. Forget the line mod valve and go with a FTVB (Factory Tech Valve Body) If you are like me you will want the NGK BR7's because of price, durability and ease of gapping. As far as where to buy the Predator. Can tell you Sal is about $60 more then some of the others (those low ball ***** dealers) selling the Predator.. BUT hold on..... Sal sends the Predator out with the $14+ power supply you need and the serial cable you need that costs $6.00+. Along with this Sal give you one of his custom tunes (he is known for some of the best) that you would routinely pay lots for. With the price of the Predator you have Sal in your corner so to speak. A guy known here for his Lightning expertise, his honesty and more. He is also known for knowing a safe tune from a dangerous tune! So, is it worth the $60 more. You damn right it is!! I paid more just for the piece of mind of knowing my L was lets say, in good hands. Hmmmm, can I be blunt... I say send the stuff back to JDM (For the record JDM is terrific but offers no Predator) for credit! Just the fact that the chip you ordered is going to kill your warranty is reason enough to go Predator!.... Of course I gave you other reasons but the warranty thing is the biggest issue. Sure having a Predator does not mean your warranty will not be voided but at least you have a chance at keeping it. Get a chip, pull your factory chip and your warranty is gone! Friggggin opinionated am I... yeaaaa and no I'm not related to Sal nor am I Italian.
Last edited by billarf; Jan 31, 2004 at 10:07 PM.