With all I have read about the stock water pump being better than the cobra pump (vendors sells as a high performance water pump), I am now thinking about reinstalling the oem pump.

What are your ideas on this?

Cobra Pump (aka High Performance Pump)
- flows less water
- loss of 5hp
- block stays hotter

Stock Pump
- keeps block cooler
- larger fins

If the cobra pump is a high performance pump for our trucks then why have people seen visable losses of 5hp after install?

This has to be from the engine not having enough water flow.

 

They say the e-fan is good for hp too but let me tell you a story...

I dynoed last Saturday (see sig) with a 4#, chip and drop in K&N. The person I was with dynoed his truck also (a member here). He had a 4#, reflash, open air kit, e-fan, h20 pump, t/b, and Maggy catback. I knew the exhaust and t/b would show no improvement on a dyno so I figured I'd see what the e-fan, h2o pump and open air kit were really worth....

He dynoed 1-3 hp more than me!

Now I know, what NOT to spend my money on

 

Jim you really don't think that an e-fan will NOT give you added HP? You guys have different tunes and it's not a fair comparison...

 

thats the absolute worst way to determine that a mod doesnt free up hp.

 

TampaBlack99,

I was the OEM engineer (tier 1) on the modular pumps.

As long as your not towing big stuff, sitting in traffic for long periods of time, running a U.D. pulley, or seeing really hot weather most of the time?

It'll be fine and it also free up some hp at the upper rpms.

BTW: Give me a pic of your "lightning pump" and I'll give you the scoop. (there have been several over the years)

Rich

 

Exactly what I was gonna say...apples to oranges

 

I do not think it is near what it is claimed to be. Can't blame it on different tunes because my chip might be more effective in my truck than yours with the same mods. Trucks respond differently and maybe the one I saw didn't take to the e-fan as well as it should have? Or maybe the gains from the fan were diminished by the loss from the airkit?

Oh yeah and that 1-3 hp was after a long cool down...

The whole 15-20 hp for an airkit and 8-15 hp for an e-fan is BS in my opinion . Everyone is entitled to their own

 

We've seen the same model year stock trucks dyno 20 HP apart on these boards over the years. You have to do the mod to your truck and dyno at the same place in like weather conditions.

This will give you a real comparison and not just speculation that we read WAY to much of on these forums.

On a side note about speculation, it's got to be one or the other on the Cobra pump. Either it cost you 5 HP and flows more coolant or it frees up HP and doesn't flow as much coolant. It can't be both. Maybe if you send an email to a bunch of people about it Bill Gates will pay you a lot of money.

Damn, I get tired of these urban legends. Just because it was posted on a forum doesn't make it true.

 

I stated that truck to truck is different. All I'm saying is the gains are blown out of proportion and that the "claimed" gains are actual max gain and not for the average Joe to see...


The only proof that we have is in dynos. When I see dynos from several people that have the mod and dynoed the same day and see the "claimed" increase consistently, I'll believe the #'s. Until then....

 

In reference to the E-fan/H2O pump upgrade. I did before and after dyno pulls and saw a legitimate 17 RWHP increase(399-416 SAE), and 30 RWTQ(490-520 SAE) on my application. This was with a JDM single file chip, 4lb lower, CAI, T-Body, and Bassani Cat-pipe and Cat-back (at the time). In addition, my truck dropped .2 tenths and gained 1.5-2 mph consistently in the 1/4mi.!

Bottom line...it's your truck and your money. IMHO it's one of the best bolt on mods you can buy because it benefits the combination in SEVERAL ways....It eliminates 12-14lbs of reciprocating mass off the front of the engine(1), thus reducing parasitic drag created by the fan clutch assembly(2), which enables the engine to produce power more efficiently across the ENTIRE rpm band(3). Lastly, it enables you to cool the motor more quickly in the staging lanes at the drag strip(4). Just my .02!

Later,
Rob

 

I agree! It's your money and you spend it how you want

This board is to express your opinions and help fellow brothers out right?

 

I'm speaking genericly here. Not specifically to you fractaldragon

That's not looking at the whole picture. A chassie dyno run takes into account many, many, many additional factors. And each of those factors add up to a total sum which = a RWHP reading. (A single snapshot in time mind you)

I conducted the bench dynos of all pumps involved. There is much more at play than a guy might conclude from reading all these types of posts.

For instance, can you tell me if the t-stat was open or closed at the exact moment the highest hp reading was taken. What was the head temp at that moment vs other runs. What was the grease/oil temps of all the FEAD components per reading? How airated was the coolant per run vs the other runs. System pressure?

These changes alone would effect the measued *pump* power consumption on a bench stand/dyno to a +/- of 5hp-7hp! Not to mention the 100+ things going on a full chassie dyno.

When I see one person post that thier findings was +30hp and another person found a decrease of 5hp. I'M NOT SUPPRISED! Makes perfect sense to me. A person cannot simply strap a truck down, run it, swap the pump and fan, then re-run it. It's not that simple. And that's why you see peoples measurements all over the place.

Again, I'm not trying to flame any particular fella out there. I love all of ya out there in Lightning land. But... true blue scientific data is not obtained via a community forum.

If anyone is interested in what I'd recommend for thier particular setup, just e-mail me and I'd be glad to help out.

Just my genuine expert observations, Rich

 

Well that 2 out of 3,
It's Florida, so it's always hot
and there tons of traffic so yes I do sit in traffic often.

Will get a pic of the oem pump soon!


How much fluid will be lost if I replace the pumps myself?

 

We have a 4 core I believe? So I'd just look at the owners manual and figure you'll replace about 75% of that amount (at 50/50 mixture). Besides if yours is a 2002 or earlier, it wont hurt at all to refresh the fluid. In the green coolant there are silicates that leach out of the fluid from the moment it gets put in the system. New fluid is always something I recommend. ( I do my cars once a year)

Get that pic to me and I can tell you what ya got and what you stand to gain.

Rich

 

WOT,

PLEASE correct me if I'm mistaken.

All,

The use of the word 'cobra' when describing a STANDARD water pump used on 4.6L engines is nothing more than Marketing by the various vendors.

Copied from fordpartsonline

YR3Z8501AB $103.86 $83.09
Cooling system - Water pump
WATER PUMP, Mustang, 4.6L 1999 - 2003


'Cobra' doesn't mean it is better. In some cases, it can be WORSE. It depends on the application.

gratuitous imagery:

4.6L pump(aka "Cobra") and 99-02 pump used on the Lightning/HD




4.6L pump (aka "Cobra") and 03 Lightning/HD water pump.



Bob