THE *FACTS* From KenneBell..part 1
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From: lancaster,pa. usa
THE *FACTS* From KenneBell..part 1
Kenne Bell info.....
Until a week ago, Kenne Bell was never involved in forum discussions. We were one of the last to even have a website. For all those years, we never visited a single enthusiast site or made a post - out of sight, out of mind. We just never allocated the time. In retrospect, we now realize that was a mistake, as we were never there to respond to questions or defend ourselves against complaints or allegations. Instead we did it by phone or not at all.
That now has changed. It doesn?t mean we?ll be active on these boards on a daily basis but we will certainly make an attempt to address and/or discuss issues on a more timely basis, particularly those that are confusing or misleading our customers or potential customers.
I don?t believe vendors, or some supporters who sound like vendors, should be on a site hawking and promoting their products, so I perceive our posts to be sparse - certainly not in the hundreds and thousands as some we?ve seen.
I hope our posts will instead be mostly informative and educational with a minimum of commercialism.
There seems to be an abundance of interest in the twin screw, the technology and who the players are. Here is a quick overview.
The twin screw concept was developed years ago. It has always been recognized by engineers as the most efficient supercharger. The problem has always been cost. They are very expensive to manufacture. Whipple was first to introduce the twin screw to the U.S. with the GM kits. Kenne Bell followed with Ford passenger car and trucks and has used the Autorotor exclusively since 1991. Whipple has used Sprintex, Autorotor, and now Lysholm (SRM), which was formed by an ex Autorotor engineer. This year, in October ?03 Autorotor purchased Lysholm. Both are Swedish companies. Kenne Bell does not resell superchargers to other kit builders or competitors nor do we sell through middleman internet ?product listers? companies. We engineer our own kits, based mostly on superchargers Autorotor has designed specifically for us. We then sell our kits factory direct to our customers or to a dealer/installer who installs and services the kits for our customers. Whipple sells Lysholm direct, to dealers, through internet ?product listers? or other kit manufactures such as The Works.
The third manufacture? is IHI in Japan. They only sell OEM. Mercedes and Mazda Milenia use their twin screw.
Eaton manufactures the Roots style only. No twin screws for OEM or aftermarket. Eaton does, however, have a licensing agreement with Autorotor/Lysholm who is manufacturing the Ford GT twin screw for Eaton in Sweden. Autorotor is also deeply involved in fuel cell technology with the twin screw.
50 state legal kits are what we?re all interested in, so here is how it breaks down.
Whipple has designed kits for the GM truck and SUV pre ?99 and ?99 up, PT Cruiser and Ford V-10.
Kenne Bell has designed kits for ?99 up GM V8's, Miata 1.8, Ford V-10,Expedition/F-150 4.6,5.4, Ford trucks 5.0,5.8, Lightning 5.8, Mustang 5.0, Lincoln, T-bird 5.0, ?99 up Mustang 4.6 2v, ?96-?98 Cobra 4v, ?03 Cobra 4v, Gen II Lightning/Harley 5.4, Escape 3.0, Dodge 5.2,5.9, Dodge/Jeep 4.7, Jeep 4.0 and Hemi 5.7. As can be seen above this is a lot of hi-tech kits so at times our phones are very busy. We?re working on it. Magnuson is the aftermarket distributor for Eaton Roots style superchargers.
Eaton Roots vs. Twin Screw future?
Engineers throughout the industry and the OEM supercharger manufactures unanimously agree that the Roots type is a good old reliable, low cost, proven low boost concept but it will never match the efficiency of the Twin Screw, especially at the higher HP and boost levels we?re all interested in.
For the Roots style, it?s akin to trying to beat an overhead V8 with a flathead V8. Ain?t never going to happen. Just look at the failed attempts so far.
Now lets get to superchargers.
First it was the hybrid Eaton that was going to make all this power and replace the stock Cobra?s and Lightning factory superchargers. Then it was a rear inlet Eaton. Now were hearing about the Lysholm 2.3. In all my 35 years in high performance business, I?ve never seen so much psycho babble (comparisons, predictions, assurances, assumptions, fictitious power numbers etc.) on products that were never accurately tested/or even available to the general public.
That isn?t the way we do it at Kenne Bell. We research, test the product, compare it to the competition and then go with it. We do not criticize any company by using negative sales campaigns against any their approach or products.
Expect us to respond when our products are continually singled out, bashed and compared unfavorably to unproven or yet to be introduced products.
Here?s is a perfect example of board bashing.
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Venomous **** says :KB's are complete crap sitting next to a Works 140.
What?s even more misleading are the boost claims people think the KB is good for. That blower is out of steam at 20 psi.
Works 140 is just taking off at that speed.
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In our opinion, Venomous **** is a little too pro Works, too confused and definitely too crude in his comparisons. He has put up far too many board bashes about Kenne Bell. This is our first post versus his 1000 or so, so I think we have the right to be heard. I designed our kit. I didn?t think it ?looked like crap?, besides, true beauty is HP! We?ve never had a complaint from our customers who purchased our kit but Venomous is entitled to his opinion. ****, have you been living in a cave? You think our boost claims are misleading? I haven?t had a single complaint. Our supercharger develops exactly the boost we claim. We publish the exact boost and hp to expect from 9-20+ psi. Who else does this? Here again, not one complaint, just another one of your fabrications. You also claim our blower is ?out of steam at 20 psi?. Really? Now how did you arrive at this mystic decision? I think you have us confused with the stock Eaton, check out all the magazine tests and the dyno tests on our own web site. The same new hybrid 2.2 rotors are used in the Kenne Bell Lightning and ?03 Cobra superchargers. At 20 psi we made 511hp on a bone stock Lightning and 617 on a bone stock Cobra. The only mod was a 12" filter, so the supercharger could breathe. Johnny Lightning made 520 at 20psi, then he made 560 at 24 psi with Muscle Mustang & Fast Ford attending. Now I have a dyno test in hand that reads 647 hp and 735 ft. lbs. I really don?t think the Kenne Bell is ?out of steam? at 20 psi. The boost didn?t drop off. How can it be ?out of steam?? **** are you sure of your facts - ?the works 140 is just taking off at that speed?? ****, remember that you must first get there before you ?take off.?
Richard (Hammer) made 660 hp at 18 psi with a 7.5x3 pulley on 93 octane and then 690+ at 20 psi with 100 octane. It would have made 700 if the clutch hadn?t fried. He can, and will eventually run it up to 24 psi and I will guarantee it still won?t be out of steam. Now that is a supercharger truly ?just taking off at that speed.? Not one of my customers has reported that the Kenne Bell boost drops off. When it does, as with the Eaton, that is the tale sign a supercharger is ?out of steam?. ****, where did you get your facts and test data? Surely, this isn?t just hearsay. The real questions in our minds is; ?Can the Works/Lysholm even match the efficiency, boost and power and proven reliability of the Kenne Bell at higher rpms and boost levels?? I?m not aware of any Lysholm ever being run under those conditions. We were aware the Lysholm 2.3 might be a future competitor. Our choice was a 2.4, 2.2. or 2.0. Autorotor furnished us the tested air flow, temperature and power consumption (hp to drive the supercharger) for the Lysholm 2.3 and the Autorotor 2.0,2.2 and the 2.4. We verified that data on our dyno and test vehicles.
We?ll just say this. None of our customers will ever be embarrassed to run against a Lysholm 2.3 with a proven Kenne Bell. We too could have used an off-the-shelf 2.0, 2.2, or 2.4 Autorotor and fabricated a new inlet as Works did . That would have been far less costly than designing an entirely new supercharger from the ground up. Even Ford was impressed with our Lightning supercharger. We chose to use the highly efficient stock inlet manifold. It flowed gobs of air, and looked good as well. We did not like the idea of twisting and sandwiching a new manifold between the firewall and the rear entry of an off-the-self supercharger. So we popped for a brand new top inlet design that accepted the stock manifold and would reliably handle 2-3 times the stock boost without boost drop off. This entirely new supercharger design required a tidy investment and considerable testing to determine HP potential. Again, Johnny Lightning has made 647 through a power robbing automatic trans. That?s enough power for him to run in the 9's. There?s a saying on our dyno ?a good dyno test is worth a thousand opinions.? Today, we can offer a proven, torture tested, highly efficient supercharger that makes tremendous power and the capability of running 26 psi without boost drop off/ ?running out of steam?. Our customers have 30% more boost potential that the 20 psi limit falsely listed by ****. The same is true for the Kenne Bell Cobra.
Supercharger size?
Until a week ago, Kenne Bell was never involved in forum discussions. We were one of the last to even have a website. For all those years, we never visited a single enthusiast site or made a post - out of sight, out of mind. We just never allocated the time. In retrospect, we now realize that was a mistake, as we were never there to respond to questions or defend ourselves against complaints or allegations. Instead we did it by phone or not at all.
That now has changed. It doesn?t mean we?ll be active on these boards on a daily basis but we will certainly make an attempt to address and/or discuss issues on a more timely basis, particularly those that are confusing or misleading our customers or potential customers.
I don?t believe vendors, or some supporters who sound like vendors, should be on a site hawking and promoting their products, so I perceive our posts to be sparse - certainly not in the hundreds and thousands as some we?ve seen.
I hope our posts will instead be mostly informative and educational with a minimum of commercialism.
There seems to be an abundance of interest in the twin screw, the technology and who the players are. Here is a quick overview.
The twin screw concept was developed years ago. It has always been recognized by engineers as the most efficient supercharger. The problem has always been cost. They are very expensive to manufacture. Whipple was first to introduce the twin screw to the U.S. with the GM kits. Kenne Bell followed with Ford passenger car and trucks and has used the Autorotor exclusively since 1991. Whipple has used Sprintex, Autorotor, and now Lysholm (SRM), which was formed by an ex Autorotor engineer. This year, in October ?03 Autorotor purchased Lysholm. Both are Swedish companies. Kenne Bell does not resell superchargers to other kit builders or competitors nor do we sell through middleman internet ?product listers? companies. We engineer our own kits, based mostly on superchargers Autorotor has designed specifically for us. We then sell our kits factory direct to our customers or to a dealer/installer who installs and services the kits for our customers. Whipple sells Lysholm direct, to dealers, through internet ?product listers? or other kit manufactures such as The Works.
The third manufacture? is IHI in Japan. They only sell OEM. Mercedes and Mazda Milenia use their twin screw.
Eaton manufactures the Roots style only. No twin screws for OEM or aftermarket. Eaton does, however, have a licensing agreement with Autorotor/Lysholm who is manufacturing the Ford GT twin screw for Eaton in Sweden. Autorotor is also deeply involved in fuel cell technology with the twin screw.
50 state legal kits are what we?re all interested in, so here is how it breaks down.
Whipple has designed kits for the GM truck and SUV pre ?99 and ?99 up, PT Cruiser and Ford V-10.
Kenne Bell has designed kits for ?99 up GM V8's, Miata 1.8, Ford V-10,Expedition/F-150 4.6,5.4, Ford trucks 5.0,5.8, Lightning 5.8, Mustang 5.0, Lincoln, T-bird 5.0, ?99 up Mustang 4.6 2v, ?96-?98 Cobra 4v, ?03 Cobra 4v, Gen II Lightning/Harley 5.4, Escape 3.0, Dodge 5.2,5.9, Dodge/Jeep 4.7, Jeep 4.0 and Hemi 5.7. As can be seen above this is a lot of hi-tech kits so at times our phones are very busy. We?re working on it. Magnuson is the aftermarket distributor for Eaton Roots style superchargers.
Eaton Roots vs. Twin Screw future?
Engineers throughout the industry and the OEM supercharger manufactures unanimously agree that the Roots type is a good old reliable, low cost, proven low boost concept but it will never match the efficiency of the Twin Screw, especially at the higher HP and boost levels we?re all interested in.
For the Roots style, it?s akin to trying to beat an overhead V8 with a flathead V8. Ain?t never going to happen. Just look at the failed attempts so far.
Now lets get to superchargers.
First it was the hybrid Eaton that was going to make all this power and replace the stock Cobra?s and Lightning factory superchargers. Then it was a rear inlet Eaton. Now were hearing about the Lysholm 2.3. In all my 35 years in high performance business, I?ve never seen so much psycho babble (comparisons, predictions, assurances, assumptions, fictitious power numbers etc.) on products that were never accurately tested/or even available to the general public.
That isn?t the way we do it at Kenne Bell. We research, test the product, compare it to the competition and then go with it. We do not criticize any company by using negative sales campaigns against any their approach or products.
Expect us to respond when our products are continually singled out, bashed and compared unfavorably to unproven or yet to be introduced products.
Here?s is a perfect example of board bashing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Venomous **** says :KB's are complete crap sitting next to a Works 140.
What?s even more misleading are the boost claims people think the KB is good for. That blower is out of steam at 20 psi.
Works 140 is just taking off at that speed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In our opinion, Venomous **** is a little too pro Works, too confused and definitely too crude in his comparisons. He has put up far too many board bashes about Kenne Bell. This is our first post versus his 1000 or so, so I think we have the right to be heard. I designed our kit. I didn?t think it ?looked like crap?, besides, true beauty is HP! We?ve never had a complaint from our customers who purchased our kit but Venomous is entitled to his opinion. ****, have you been living in a cave? You think our boost claims are misleading? I haven?t had a single complaint. Our supercharger develops exactly the boost we claim. We publish the exact boost and hp to expect from 9-20+ psi. Who else does this? Here again, not one complaint, just another one of your fabrications. You also claim our blower is ?out of steam at 20 psi?. Really? Now how did you arrive at this mystic decision? I think you have us confused with the stock Eaton, check out all the magazine tests and the dyno tests on our own web site. The same new hybrid 2.2 rotors are used in the Kenne Bell Lightning and ?03 Cobra superchargers. At 20 psi we made 511hp on a bone stock Lightning and 617 on a bone stock Cobra. The only mod was a 12" filter, so the supercharger could breathe. Johnny Lightning made 520 at 20psi, then he made 560 at 24 psi with Muscle Mustang & Fast Ford attending. Now I have a dyno test in hand that reads 647 hp and 735 ft. lbs. I really don?t think the Kenne Bell is ?out of steam? at 20 psi. The boost didn?t drop off. How can it be ?out of steam?? **** are you sure of your facts - ?the works 140 is just taking off at that speed?? ****, remember that you must first get there before you ?take off.?
Richard (Hammer) made 660 hp at 18 psi with a 7.5x3 pulley on 93 octane and then 690+ at 20 psi with 100 octane. It would have made 700 if the clutch hadn?t fried. He can, and will eventually run it up to 24 psi and I will guarantee it still won?t be out of steam. Now that is a supercharger truly ?just taking off at that speed.? Not one of my customers has reported that the Kenne Bell boost drops off. When it does, as with the Eaton, that is the tale sign a supercharger is ?out of steam?. ****, where did you get your facts and test data? Surely, this isn?t just hearsay. The real questions in our minds is; ?Can the Works/Lysholm even match the efficiency, boost and power and proven reliability of the Kenne Bell at higher rpms and boost levels?? I?m not aware of any Lysholm ever being run under those conditions. We were aware the Lysholm 2.3 might be a future competitor. Our choice was a 2.4, 2.2. or 2.0. Autorotor furnished us the tested air flow, temperature and power consumption (hp to drive the supercharger) for the Lysholm 2.3 and the Autorotor 2.0,2.2 and the 2.4. We verified that data on our dyno and test vehicles.
We?ll just say this. None of our customers will ever be embarrassed to run against a Lysholm 2.3 with a proven Kenne Bell. We too could have used an off-the-shelf 2.0, 2.2, or 2.4 Autorotor and fabricated a new inlet as Works did . That would have been far less costly than designing an entirely new supercharger from the ground up. Even Ford was impressed with our Lightning supercharger. We chose to use the highly efficient stock inlet manifold. It flowed gobs of air, and looked good as well. We did not like the idea of twisting and sandwiching a new manifold between the firewall and the rear entry of an off-the-self supercharger. So we popped for a brand new top inlet design that accepted the stock manifold and would reliably handle 2-3 times the stock boost without boost drop off. This entirely new supercharger design required a tidy investment and considerable testing to determine HP potential. Again, Johnny Lightning has made 647 through a power robbing automatic trans. That?s enough power for him to run in the 9's. There?s a saying on our dyno ?a good dyno test is worth a thousand opinions.? Today, we can offer a proven, torture tested, highly efficient supercharger that makes tremendous power and the capability of running 26 psi without boost drop off/ ?running out of steam?. Our customers have 30% more boost potential that the 20 psi limit falsely listed by ****. The same is true for the Kenne Bell Cobra.
Supercharger size?
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Joined: Aug 2003
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BTW- All this info was posted on Modular Ford Website.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...&threadid=6563
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...&threadid=6563
