Question for Tim Skelton?
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Kirkland, WA
Question for Tim Skelton?
I know that you have the hotchkis set up on your L. What is your opinion on the front springs. Are they firm enough or would you go a bit firmer? Does the truck tend tword oversteer with the hotchkis coils? Any advice would be great, I am planning on ordering the hotchkis set up soon. Thanks in advance.
Matt
Matt
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
I know I've seen it somewhere here ...
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,462
Likes: 0
From: San Antonio, Texas
Hotchkis springs and sway bars installed. Even with the stock shocks, the "ride quality" is not poor--at least by my standards. A sharp bump will definitely get your attention, but I much prefer a firm suspension, even on the street.
However, among the (perceived) advantages of the Hotchkis kit is that it is a complete, turnkey system. With matched spring rates and anti-sway bar rates, I think that Hotchkis did its homework and that the bars work well with the springs to produce reasonably balanced handling out-of-the-box. The handling is neutral at low speeds, but with a tendency to oversteer as the speeds get higher. I'd rather have it the other way around.
However, among the (perceived) advantages of the Hotchkis kit is that it is a complete, turnkey system. With matched spring rates and anti-sway bar rates, I think that Hotchkis did its homework and that the bars work well with the springs to produce reasonably balanced handling out-of-the-box. The handling is neutral at low speeds, but with a tendency to oversteer as the speeds get higher. I'd rather have it the other way around.
Bump steer is an issue. Even with the mild 1" front drop, the bump steer is much more pronounced. With a lower drop, it may become a real problem. Conventional wisdom says that any Lightning drop lower than 1.75" makes the bump steer serious.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 1
From: The People's Republic of Los Angeles
The report quoted above about sums it up.
Handling is so dependent upon all of the bits selected that I cannot comment on anything but my setup.
My truck now understeers! Not much, and I'm not sure exactly why, but it sure does. It used to slightly tend towards oversteer at high speeds--kind of a twitchy feeling.
The Hotchkis is way better than stock, though. I might get stiffer springs in the front one day, but I strongly advise you to try the Hotchkis first. They are pretty damn stiff.
You will definitely need new shocks.
Handling is so dependent upon all of the bits selected that I cannot comment on anything but my setup.
My truck now understeers! Not much, and I'm not sure exactly why, but it sure does. It used to slightly tend towards oversteer at high speeds--kind of a twitchy feeling.
The Hotchkis is way better than stock, though. I might get stiffer springs in the front one day, but I strongly advise you to try the Hotchkis first. They are pretty damn stiff.
You will definitely need new shocks.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Kirkland, WA
Trending Topics
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2,357
Likes: 0
From: Ventura, CA, USA
However, among the (perceived) advantages of the Hotchkis kit is that it is a complete, turnkey system. With matched spring rates and anti-sway bar rates, I think that Hotchkis did its homework and that the bars work well with the springs to produce reasonably balanced handling out-of-the-box. The handling is neutral at low speeds, but with a tendency to oversteer as the speeds get higher. I'd rather have it the other way around.
Sorry, I beg to differ. I have the Hotchkis leafs and sway bars, but I knew from the get-go that their front springs were designed for comfort, not handling, and that high speed oversteer was a definite problem. I opted to go with some 1100 lb. coils from Ruslow, as well as his panhard bar and QA1 shocks. (I'd rather have the same shocks as the one-lap-of-America truck, but hey, I'm not made of money). The 1100 lb. springs are still too soft. Stan uses a much higher rate in his truck, and now I can see why. The truck is neutral at auto-x speeds, but I wouldn't trust it at road course speeds. There is less body roll, but still too much. I'm going to cut a couple inches off the coils and see how much that stiffens them up, but if they are still too soft I'm going to get some 1500 pounders from Stan.
Thread Starter
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Kirkland, WA
Alphadoggy,
I have a couple questions? One how much do you drive your truck on the street? Two, how much did stan's springs actually lower your truck, and where did you buy your prothane bushings and how much were they?
Matt
I have a couple questions? One how much do you drive your truck on the street? Two, how much did stan's springs actually lower your truck, and where did you buy your prothane bushings and how much were they?
Matt
Senior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 1
From: The People's Republic of Los Angeles
Originally posted by alphadoggy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I beg to differ. I have the Hotchkis leafs and sway bars, but I knew from the get-go that their front springs were designed for comfort, not handling, and that high speed oversteer was a definite problem. I opted to go with some 1100 lb. coils from Ruslow, as well as his panhard bar and QA1 shocks. (I'd rather have the same shocks as the one-lap-of-America truck, but hey, I'm not made of money). The 1100 lb. springs are still too soft. Stan uses a much higher rate in his truck, and now I can see why. The truck is neutral at auto-x speeds, but I wouldn't trust it at road course speeds. There is less body roll, but still too much. I'm going to cut a couple inches off the coils and see how much that stiffens them up, but if they are still too soft I'm going to get some 1500 pounders from Stan.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, I beg to differ. I have the Hotchkis leafs and sway bars, but I knew from the get-go that their front springs were designed for comfort, not handling, and that high speed oversteer was a definite problem. I opted to go with some 1100 lb. coils from Ruslow, as well as his panhard bar and QA1 shocks. (I'd rather have the same shocks as the one-lap-of-America truck, but hey, I'm not made of money). The 1100 lb. springs are still too soft. Stan uses a much higher rate in his truck, and now I can see why. The truck is neutral at auto-x speeds, but I wouldn't trust it at road course speeds. There is less body roll, but still too much. I'm going to cut a couple inches off the coils and see how much that stiffens them up, but if they are still too soft I'm going to get some 1500 pounders from Stan.
"High speed oversteer was a definite problem" Where are you getting this oversteer information from? Every time you state this, your assertions get stronger and stronger. I did a full search on both here and NLOC. Spike Engineering and I were the only people who reported oversteer with the full Hotchkis setup--and both of us reported that it was MILD. Spike adjusted tire pressures slightly and was fine. Now that the suspension has settled in and the other suspension mods have been added (Metco lower links, QA1s, Ruslow panhard, lowered rear sway bar links), I actually have mild understeer.
Have you ever driven a full Hotchkis L?
Reference to Stan's setup is comparing apples to oranges. He does not use the Hotchkis rears, so any front spring rates in his truck are irrelevant to the present discussion.
1,500 lbs springs would be insane for a street-driven L. The approx. 900 lb Hotchkis coils are at the limit of sane daily driver rates.
To be perfectly clear--my opinion is that the Hoitchkis setup is very good right out of the box. Any oversteer tendencies are so minimal that even a slight change in setup, tire pressures, or, in the case of Spike, simple settling of the rear leafs over time, will bring the balance back towards neutral. I have not seen any credible information to the contrary.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,166
Likes: 0
From: Burlington, Ma
I have Hotchkiss front spring, rear shackles, and 4 QA1 shocks.
I am thinking of going to a drop front spindle or a set of aftermarket lower control arms, and reinstalling my stock front springs.
I hope I can find a product that will let me keep my 1.5 inch front drop I have now, but will return the bumpstop to a factory setting and give me a neutral handling truck.
If anyone has any sugestions let me know.
I am thinking of going to a drop front spindle or a set of aftermarket lower control arms, and reinstalling my stock front springs.
I hope I can find a product that will let me keep my 1.5 inch front drop I have now, but will return the bumpstop to a factory setting and give me a neutral handling truck.
If anyone has any sugestions let me know.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2,357
Likes: 0
From: Ventura, CA, USA
George, you may recall that I have Hotchkis all the way around + sways. I have mild oversteer. Makes the rear feel great at low speeds, but a little spooky at triple digits.
http://www.nloc.info/forum/showthrea...threadid=33223
1,500 lbs springs would be insane for a street-driven L. The approx. 900 lb Hotchkis coils are at the limit of sane daily driver rates.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 4,297
Likes: 0
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
I wish we had some measurements on how hard of a turn you guys say you are feeling oversteer on. Our trucks are light reared, high torque, heavy creatures, so throttle oversteer is always there...but non-throttle oversteer?
I've got the ROUSH springs all the way around, QA1's (8/6 street, 10/9 at track last time), hotchkis sways and the panhard. I didn't feel oversteer from the front running on the Pirelli's at Limerock, the tires scrubbed speed nicely around the esseses, I could have pushed it harder.
I've run into way more understeer in auto-x then oversteer.
Daniel
I've got the ROUSH springs all the way around, QA1's (8/6 street, 10/9 at track last time), hotchkis sways and the panhard. I didn't feel oversteer from the front running on the Pirelli's at Limerock, the tires scrubbed speed nicely around the esseses, I could have pushed it harder.
I've run into way more understeer in auto-x then oversteer.
Daniel