PLEASE DON'T BLOW PAST THIS POST just because it sounds like the same old "which lowering kit should I buy" newbie question (not that there's anything wrong with new guys but I did use the search feature already).

I've searched and researched, and had all but decided to go with the Hotchkis lowering springs front and rear (same as I had on my '01 truck), only this time I was going to spring (no pun intended) for the hotchkis sway bars, and I was going to buy the QA1 shocks to control the RIDICULOUS amount of rebound from these springs that I felt with the stock Bilsteins. I mean this kit will literally bounce you out of the seat at speed if you hit a dip in the road, on the rebound you are airborn! but around town at slower speeds I didn't find the kit bouncy at all. Aside from that I was very pleased with the quality of the hotchkis products and the performance and appearance of the truck.

I read the info on www.timskelton.com very informative.

HERE are my questions, again I've searched AND called the manufacturers and found conflicting information .

1. I don't want to cut the payload down to nothing (ala Roush 400lbs). I was under the impression from a few folks that the Hotchkis was rated at 800lb payload. But I called Terry at http://www.performanceresearchonline.com/ and he tells me that the hotchkis cuts it down around 400lbs as well. If I only needed to carry 400lbs I'd buy a Cobra. This isn't a work truck, but I want to be able to carry a load if need be. I have called Hotchkis and sent e-mails but it has been over the holidays and supposedly they are doing inventory and I can't get in touch with an actual person.

2. tim skelton's website and terry at above road racing lightning place in texas tell me that the hotchkis springs are too stiff and my 60'fts will suffer significantly? But my '01 cut consistant 1.81s with a best of 1.78 with the hotchkis setup ON F1s! and no traction bars! was that truck just a fluke or are others getting crappy 60fts with the hotchkis?

3. If I lower the truck 1/2 with the hotchkis, what QA1s do I use? I have part numbers TC1538P for the front and TC1610P for the rear, these are stock height p/ns will this moderate lowering kit require shorter shocks? I have called HAL/QA1 and they say that they want me to drop the truck and then measure and calle them back! I'm sure several of you have already used these exact parts or else the alternate front TC1955Ps which are slightly shorter? do I want the stock length ones for increased front end travel at the strip on launches?

I probably have more questions, but I can't remember.

but anyway here is what I need the truck to do.

1. Ride comfortably (within reason, I know it's not a lexus, it's a lowered F-150), but I don't want a lowrider bouncey truck.

2. Launch well at the drag strip and on the street! very important.

3. Look good (appearance wise), again, I don't NEED the truck slammed to the weeds, but jeez these '03s are tall in the back! I don't object to more serious lowering, but I'm afraid that ride quality may suffer even more so why risk it.

4. I don't plan to road race the truck, but I certainly wouldn't mind better handling. so this is not a major concern.

5. I want to be able to use the truck AS A PICKUP truck if I need to. I don't want to turn it into a car with only two seats and a bed that can't haul anything but a load of groceries!

6. I'm not particularly a big fan of shackles, and i'm not sure if they are enough to lower this moster truck rear ride height '03 anyway.

thats all I can think of right now.

ANY opinions or personal experience info is GREATLY appreciated.

thanks.

sincerely,
chris

 

Chris ,I only did a 1/2 drop so I can not be much help but have you read Captainoblivius's site on lowering.Maybe it could help answer some question.

http://captainoblivious.tripod.com/l.../lowering.html

 

thanks vinnie, I didn't list it, but I had read his site too. unfortunately, he also thinks that the hotchkis will cause my launches to suffer which doesn't mesh with my personal experience, but again maybe my '01 was just a freak?:
and also, probably more importantly, it doesn't show payload capacity rating.

I feel somewhat comfortable about the launching traction based on my personal experience, but if the hotchkis kit has the same 400lb capacity as the roush, I'd probably give the roush a try, (unless of course roush users tell me that their trucks don't launch well.?) Or else I'll have to continue to search for another alternative that doesn't kill my launch traction or payload.

P.S. Also equally importantly, I DONT want to buy the hotchkis again if the QA1s aren't going to correct this ejection seat at speed bouncing condition.

later,
chris

 

So day at work Chris?
Man I love hangin out at the house drinking on a thursday

 

A couple guys here bought the hotchkiss installed it and sold it ...
I know one went to Roush
Not sure why .. Perhaps the same reasons you mention

Doug

 

you suck...

 

I have seen some so called helpers for the rear leaf srpring setup...one looks like it just mounts in two places on topof the spring stack and in front of the axle...this is also supposed to be an anti-sway and load handling helper..Don't seewhy it couldn't be applied to lowered springs...I have the Roush and AIM drop shackels in back...17" from wheel well lip to center of wheel al the way around. That was after the install..it has been a few weeks and a 1000 or more miles..I need to measure again. I here bagging the rear would allow you to run the drop and also carry a load when pressured up..I have not really researched Air Systems yet. I understand what you mean abot the rebound dampening..Even with the Roush Valved Bilsteins ..when hittting a good dip or sharp incline say coming onto a bridge sometimes I do get some some air under my ***...I have started compensating...ie. slowing for questionable approaches....There is one curved dual bridge setup around here that does this and I have noticed the faster I take the bump..the dampenionng seems to work better..I'm putting on CalTrac's soon and hope they don't upset the ride..If you have the bucks QA1's are it. If not Ruslow sales some adjustable shocks less expensive than the QA1's..but I believe you have to remove them to adjust the valving...Make sure the rear bumpstops are replaced or cut significantly..if you are hitting them the rebound could be much worse..Get rid of the hitch ,spare and anything else in the back tho improve the ride....

 

You don't need to measure and call QA1. I did that long ago, did the fit up and gave the different part numbers to Ruslow.

So, I suggest calling him or send an email to ruslow@yahoo.com.

As far as the payload capacity is concerned, it's not reduced as much as you were told. The only reason why ANY drop in the rear reduces payload is because suspension travel is reduced. Here's a picture of stupid red trunk with the bed loaded prior to going to Thunderhill. I took it easy on the road and never bottomed out. Furthermore, this Hotchkis drop was 3 1/4 in the rear (actual), not the 2" drop they currently sell.


Here's a picture of the same suspension put on the stupid white truck without a load:

 

FWIW, When I bought my Hotckis springs they told me the payload was rated at 800lbs. I seem to remember them saying they put an extra leaf in just for that purpose.

I totally agree with your impressions of the the hotchkis springs and stock shocks. I need to make the switch to the QA1's also.

In theory, the stiffer spring will not let the rear "squat" as easily during a hard launch. On the other hand I would go with your actual results than the theory. Sorry, I don't have any hard data, but, I don't seem to think it made that much difference.

Another option that I don't have any personal experience with is Ruslow's "sliders." I'm also not a big fan of shackles and his sliders get a two inch drop without shackles. Had I not already done the Hotckis, I probably would have done the sliders.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

Well that was just my personal opinion on what I noticed. Many other people have mentioned the same thing to me as you stated, that it didn't hurt their launching. One day I will go in a re-word that to be more clear. As time goes by I have been getting better at my launches and re-thinking some things through again. Which leads me to believe now that my initial impression (that it hurt my launches) was based on the the combination of inexperience, slightly less weight shifting to the rear, stock F1's and E-town never being really prepped well.

Also as Spike said, it's the reduced suspension travel that kills the payload capacity. I was still able to haul a few hundred pounds of rocks with my truck, granted my truck was riding on the rear bump stops and I highly don't recommend doing that at all.

As for the Roush, I haven't driven it yet. But I can say that in Dan's (thepawn) it really hasn't affected his launching at all. I've seen him launch before and after the kit, and I believe his 60ft times are all reasonably consistant.

If I had to do it over I may have gone the Roush route. When I finally drive Dan's truck, if I like it enough I may just switch over to the Roush kit.

You may not get that with the Roush or Hotchkis springs. Even with the QA1's my ride is still bouncy. IMO not an uncomfortable bouncy, but a "can get on your nerves sometimes" bouncy. You can definately tell that it is more performance oriented.
If you want a little better performance but retain more comfort then Hotchkis or Roush can give, why not front springs like the Hotchkis or the springs Ruslow sells and a pair of his slider's for the rear? Since you won't be getting stiffer rear springs that will retain some ride comfort, and the sliders will lower the rear but not give as much sway as longer shackles.
It will. Pictures of mine can be seen on my site, and Spike's white truck looks great in the picture he posted.

 

Chris,

I can give you a ROUSH perspective. The "kit" includes the
front springs (Which seem to be about 3" shorter than stock)
and the rear springs (Which seem "flatter") along with the
four Roush Valved Bilstein's and front bumber stops and
cambolts.

Since after the install, the rear was resting on the stock
bumper "Beehives" I removed them and wnet in search
of some replacements. The truck really rode hard with
nothing back there, I assume because it was hitting the
frame on every bump.

After failing to find a suitable replacement (The '99 F150
bumpstops are $20.00 EA from FORD) I saw someone
post that they just used the OLD front ones in the rear.
Sunday I did this as well as change my drop shackles to
the second hole (2" original -- now 1" ???) and the
difference was amazing. No more bone jarring ride,
and the truck is like a magnet on the road. Maybe this
is why ROUSH doesn't ship rear bump stops, eh?

I would think the best way to judge is for you to drive
the trucks that are setup the way you THINK you want
and then make a choice if possible.

I went with the ROUSH because if anyone knows how to
"setup" a race car, you would think JR would. Brandon
and I scared each other when we tested his truck on a
very "twistie" road by our house, and the ONLY thing
that the setup seems to do is make my brake life much
shorter ... I don't have any data on the 1320 aspect of
the setup, but I will as soon as this weather clears. (March? LOL)

The install was simplicity at it best. Fit and Finish were excellent,
and the front springs just drop right in after you drop the two
upper control arm bolts.

Another friend of ours ran the stock shocks with the ROUSH
kit springs, and found that because the shock length was
wrong for the geometry they wore out in about 6 months.

I will try to take a picture tonight of the new setup for ya.

Best Regards,

Cliff

PS ... ROUSH is also on SALE ... <grin>

 

well after sending 5 emails and leaving 1 phone message, and still getting no answer, I called Hotchkis again a minute ago and finally got somebody on the phone. JC told me that the hotchkis kit should retain 90 to 95% of the stock payload capacity.

Fine, sounds great, except that they went on to tell me that they have NEVER heard of this harsh ride/ bouncing concern and that they recommend using stock shocks because there is no problem. Also told me that all Lightnings (including 99-00) used Bilstein shocks, but the '01+ are better Bilsteins? I don't know.

the roush sounds good (especially on sale) except that I fear it may be too low for my taste, I don't want my truck eating curbs everytime I park.

I know i'm too picky .

Can someone tell me more about these SLIDERS from ruslow? How exactly do they work, and are there any adverse effects? noise or side to side axle movement? how about launching?

As soon as I get home from work I will e-mail him for more direct info. (or maybe Fast Gator could go ahead and take care of that for me since he's not doing anything but sitting home drinking on a Thursday afternoon!)

Thanks for all the input so far, keep it coming, I really appreciate it!

sincerely,
chris

 

I think I am smack on 16" now front and rear ...

 

I meant, "Slow day at work"

And yes......Iam still suckin the brews

 

superfords - this is a pic of the sliders




Check out this for an explanation of what they do:
http://www.nloc.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=14748