An Answer From King Ranch
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From: The Bluegrass State
An Answer From King Ranch
Lady and Gentlemen:
Here is the final word from King Ranch:
Here is the WORD document that was attached:
So, everything in a nutshell...
We have approval on a logo WITHOUT the RUNNING W BRAND. I've already checked with Joe (KRSC02) to see what he might be able to come up with WITHOUT the Running W.
I know that the running W was important in our logo but, per King Ranch's request because of existing contracts with other vendors, we won't be able to use it. Period.
With that being said...
What do we want to put in it's place?
I was thinking something along the lines of 'EST. 2003' to signify the begining of the club. I hesitate to put 'EST. 1853' again, because of infringements. However; if those are 'the club's' wishes, I can check with my contact at King Ranch to see if we might be able to put that in it's place.
Here's where we need some interaction... what do you all want to see? Maybe if Joe has some time, he can draft another logo such that we can see what it might look like.
ALSO.. this is VERY important. I feel that we should all remove the logo to comply with King Ranch's wishes for us to *not* use the Running W brand.
We need opinions and positive recourse at this time. Use your energy to focus on where we can go with this logo and not 'bashing' KR for not allowing use of the W. They are a company with agreements with other vendors concerning their W.
Think of it this way, if we had contacted someone like 'NIKE' or 'SONY' with the same general questions, we would've never had a response.
Input needed...
RP
Here is the final word from King Ranch:
Bradley, please find attached a Word document expressing our position on the use of the King Ranch brand. Please call or email if you have any concerns or questions.
Thank you for your interest in King Ranch and I wish your group all the success in that effort.
Kind Regards, <snip>
Thank you for your interest in King Ranch and I wish your group all the success in that effort.
Kind Regards, <snip>
April 29, 2003
Bradley L. <snip>
King Ranch Ford Truck International Owner’s Club
info@lfienvironmental.com
Dear Bradley,
This letter is in response to your e-mail on April 21, 2003 requesting approval of your proposed logo for the King Ranch Ford Truck International Owner’s Club.
We are very pleased and proud that you are starting up such a club, and we certainly wish you every success in that effort. We also greatly appreciate your checking with us on the proposed logo. Unfortunately, we can only approve your logo if the Running W Brand is removed. This restriction is the result of our pre-existing agreements and associated policies as the supplier/licensor of a broad array of merchandise associated with the Running W brand.
In the same vein, while we can allow your use of the King Ranch name in the logo, that use should be restricted solely to the logo that you proposed with the outer oval identifying the association with the truck owners' club. In addition, the logo with the King Ranch name should not be used in a manner which implies the sponsorship or endorsement of any goods (other than the King Ranch truck) or services by King Ranch or any affiliation with King Ranch. We trust that these restrictions will not be an obstacle for the formation of your club.
Of course, we cannot grant permission with respect to the Ford name. You should contact Ford in that regard if you have not done so already.
If you have any questions, please contact me at <snip> or <snip>@king-ranch.com.
Sincerely,
<snip>
Cc: <snip>, General Counsel
Bradley L. <snip>
King Ranch Ford Truck International Owner’s Club
info@lfienvironmental.com
Dear Bradley,
This letter is in response to your e-mail on April 21, 2003 requesting approval of your proposed logo for the King Ranch Ford Truck International Owner’s Club.
We are very pleased and proud that you are starting up such a club, and we certainly wish you every success in that effort. We also greatly appreciate your checking with us on the proposed logo. Unfortunately, we can only approve your logo if the Running W Brand is removed. This restriction is the result of our pre-existing agreements and associated policies as the supplier/licensor of a broad array of merchandise associated with the Running W brand.
In the same vein, while we can allow your use of the King Ranch name in the logo, that use should be restricted solely to the logo that you proposed with the outer oval identifying the association with the truck owners' club. In addition, the logo with the King Ranch name should not be used in a manner which implies the sponsorship or endorsement of any goods (other than the King Ranch truck) or services by King Ranch or any affiliation with King Ranch. We trust that these restrictions will not be an obstacle for the formation of your club.
Of course, we cannot grant permission with respect to the Ford name. You should contact Ford in that regard if you have not done so already.
If you have any questions, please contact me at <snip> or <snip>@king-ranch.com.
Sincerely,
<snip>
Cc: <snip>, General Counsel
So, everything in a nutshell...
We have approval on a logo WITHOUT the RUNNING W BRAND. I've already checked with Joe (KRSC02) to see what he might be able to come up with WITHOUT the Running W.
I know that the running W was important in our logo but, per King Ranch's request because of existing contracts with other vendors, we won't be able to use it. Period.
With that being said...
What do we want to put in it's place?
I was thinking something along the lines of 'EST. 2003' to signify the begining of the club. I hesitate to put 'EST. 1853' again, because of infringements. However; if those are 'the club's' wishes, I can check with my contact at King Ranch to see if we might be able to put that in it's place.
Here's where we need some interaction... what do you all want to see? Maybe if Joe has some time, he can draft another logo such that we can see what it might look like.
ALSO.. this is VERY important. I feel that we should all remove the logo to comply with King Ranch's wishes for us to *not* use the Running W brand.
We need opinions and positive recourse at this time. Use your energy to focus on where we can go with this logo and not 'bashing' KR for not allowing use of the W. They are a company with agreements with other vendors concerning their W.
Think of it this way, if we had contacted someone like 'NIKE' or 'SONY' with the same general questions, we would've never had a response.
Input needed...
RP
Last edited by Rockpick; Apr 30, 2003 at 07:46 PM.
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From: Colorado
Maybe we ask what it would cost? No kidding, each new member's fee would include a part going to KR and we base the fee on a per member cost. More members, more money to KR. An extra $5 might do the trick. I just like the original design and intent and losing the W would not help. Just a thought.
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From: The Bluegrass State
My judgement of the letter is that money would make no difference what so ever...
They are legally bound with other companies to produce the "W" on their merchandise and, based on that legally binding agreement, they agree not to market with any other resources other than the ones that they are devoting to those particular vendors.
In short, I don't think they can allow us to use it due to other contracts and agreements.
I like the thought but, seriously doubt that we can afford to buy out someone else's contract such that we can get approval.
Seriously, I believe we need to consider the W dead.
RP
They are legally bound with other companies to produce the "W" on their merchandise and, based on that legally binding agreement, they agree not to market with any other resources other than the ones that they are devoting to those particular vendors.
In short, I don't think they can allow us to use it due to other contracts and agreements.
I like the thought but, seriously doubt that we can afford to buy out someone else's contract such that we can get approval.
Seriously, I believe we need to consider the W dead.
RP
Well good luck on the new logo and I hope y'all can get that thing started!
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From: Deer Park, N.Y.
I am disappointed with their answer but can certainly understand their position. As you mentioned before RP maybe Joe, if he has the time, can grace us with a new version of the emblem. Having just read this thread I can not offer any suggestions at this time. But please, everyone, let this not fall by the wayside due to this setback.
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From: The Bluegrass State
I agree 110% Liny. I'm definately let down but, on the flip side, I do see their point. They are running a business and we have to respect that. Darnit! I just wish they would've let it go as-is but, a contract is a contract.... bah.
You're right, we DO NOT need to let this fall to the wayside.
We've been working on this quite a bit behind the seens. Sarman and I have been coordinating on the shirts through his brother in law and I have been working on getting sticker quotes from several companies.
We need to continue to stride forward. We have approval... it's just not full approval.
Focus on the prize guys... we'll get there.
RP
You're right, we DO NOT need to let this fall to the wayside.
We've been working on this quite a bit behind the seens. Sarman and I have been coordinating on the shirts through his brother in law and I have been working on getting sticker quotes from several companies.
We need to continue to stride forward. We have approval... it's just not full approval.
Focus on the prize guys... we'll get there.
RP
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From: The Bluegrass State
Thanks Joe... you da man.
I'm not sure what everyone else thinks but...
I was thinking about something that is generally just like our logo so that we're not back at square one. What you made originally is amazing. It's awsome. Perfect.
I think that by making the fonts a little larger and/or adding Est. 2003 to the sticker we can easily fill the void.
It's all in your hands. Create oh' mighty Photoshop wizard. ROFL!
RP
I'm not sure what everyone else thinks but...
I was thinking about something that is generally just like our logo so that we're not back at square one. What you made originally is amazing. It's awsome. Perfect.
I think that by making the fonts a little larger and/or adding Est. 2003 to the sticker we can easily fill the void.
It's all in your hands. Create oh' mighty Photoshop wizard. ROFL!
RP
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From: NAS Keflavik, Iceland
I say go with what we can go with. The "W" would be a great touch but atleast we are able to put "King rancH" on there. We may have to for go the swirl background on the shirts also (sorry) brother says it looks good as art but not practical using thread. but that is for another forum.
let's do it
let's do it
let's do it
let's do it
let's do it
let's do it
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From: Lusby, Md.
My humble viewpoint...
King Ranch is indeed a business with contractual agreements etc... Who Cares?
The idea of an International KR owners club was given birth in the OWNERS minds, e.g. those of us who love the trucks.
KR provided the leather and Ford Motor Company provided the motor and the steel, WE provided the heart, the loyalty and the love of the "Experience", The Running W is the same as the "Blue Oval" one of us doesn't have those anymore
.
The true experience is the kinship all have and continue to develop on this board, a silly W should ot stop that. I say Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead, it's the crew that matters...
My 2 cents...
Bear Pooh... ooops I mean poohbear
King Ranch is indeed a business with contractual agreements etc... Who Cares?
The idea of an International KR owners club was given birth in the OWNERS minds, e.g. those of us who love the trucks.
KR provided the leather and Ford Motor Company provided the motor and the steel, WE provided the heart, the loyalty and the love of the "Experience", The Running W is the same as the "Blue Oval" one of us doesn't have those anymore
. The true experience is the kinship all have and continue to develop on this board, a silly W should ot stop that. I say Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead, it's the crew that matters...
My 2 cents...
Bear Pooh... ooops I mean poohbear
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From: Ottawa, Ont., Canada
Total bummer about the no logo thing. It is a way cool design. Joe, I think for consistency, the logo design should be one that also works for the shirt embroidery.
Are we going to get in trouble with Ford now too?
Seems silly to me that corporate america can't unclench their butt cheeks enough for a non-profit, brand-promoting club like us to advertise their products on our own bodies. Was it made clear to the folks at KR that we don't intend to profit from the use of the running W ?
Are we going to get in trouble with Ford now too?
Seems silly to me that corporate america can't unclench their butt cheeks enough for a non-profit, brand-promoting club like us to advertise their products on our own bodies. Was it made clear to the folks at KR that we don't intend to profit from the use of the running W ?
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From: Summerville, SC Near Historic Charleston
Rock and others,
Thanks for all your efforts, however that sucks that the KR won't allow us to display their running W. I don't understand why they didn't say no right off the bat and lead us on and give us false hope. If they would have just said "NO, but we'll check on it" then we wouldn't have been as disappointed.
With the above said, the club should go on and maybe we need our own branding symbol unique to the club only. I'm not sure what the symbol might look like but I've had a few ideas floating around and one is to modify the running W by cutting off the ends or reshaping it slightly to belong to us and then we won't have to ask permission anymore or create a legal matter. Maybe we can have a symbol that has one additional loop in the W or something totally different but equally as impressive.
BTW, what do the Corvette, Mustang, Camaro etc etc etc clubs do for symbols and logos, I think I've seen them copy manufacturer's symbols without issues. Maybe we should inquire into other auto clubs to check on infringement issues they have run into with their associations.
Later,
~DM~
Thanks for all your efforts, however that sucks that the KR won't allow us to display their running W. I don't understand why they didn't say no right off the bat and lead us on and give us false hope. If they would have just said "NO, but we'll check on it" then we wouldn't have been as disappointed.
With the above said, the club should go on and maybe we need our own branding symbol unique to the club only. I'm not sure what the symbol might look like but I've had a few ideas floating around and one is to modify the running W by cutting off the ends or reshaping it slightly to belong to us and then we won't have to ask permission anymore or create a legal matter. Maybe we can have a symbol that has one additional loop in the W or something totally different but equally as impressive.
BTW, what do the Corvette, Mustang, Camaro etc etc etc clubs do for symbols and logos, I think I've seen them copy manufacturer's symbols without issues. Maybe we should inquire into other auto clubs to check on infringement issues they have run into with their associations.
Later,
~DM~