I'm always happy to welcome somebody coming over from the dark side. LOL

 

"If they're not heroes, what are they" you asked?

Quite simply, they're professionals doing their job. I pay taxes, they get paid out of the taxes that both myself and other residents of the city and county pay.

Pragmatism beats out idealism yet again....

Andthemsometoo:

No worries, man. I've had my name butchered more times than I can count. Most often, I ended up being Jesus.

Jebus

The Explanaition of "Jebus":
"Dude, what IS Jebus, exactly?"
"Jebus was the older, retarded half cousin of Jesus. Turned water into vinegar and made those loaves into pop tarts. Since pop tarts weren't yet invented, you see my point."

 

technically, police work and firefighting are not considered professions. Not that it matters though, just thought i'd throw that in.

 

DanB360, what are you smoking? how is it not a profession? Never mind, why don't you go look up the definition ,you twit!

I've been a Professional Firefighter/EMT for 15 years, (despite of danb360's comments.....twit!!) I also lost some friends in FDNY, and as some of you know I was there( ground zero WTC)I don't like all the FDNY stuff, because someone is using the deaths to market products and make money, you have to be a slimeball to try to make $$$ off of someone dying. I understand people are trying to show support for those still alive, however there are many other ways.

If any of those guys thought that building would fail as soon as it did, none of them would have gone. We don't do suicide missions.They accessed the situation ..... risk vs benefit , I'm sure they still felt they could get in do what needed to be done and get out. What they should be remembered for is they had what it takes, as all the others do.

I'm no hero, ........I'm a chicken*****......If I can get you out without a huge risk, I will! .....I have my protective gear to shield me from the heat, I have an air pack to supply me good air to breathe, and experiance and training to allow me to make solid risk VS benefit decisions.

It takes a certian amount of courage to do it, and all of those men had it, even before they where called Hero's. Its the part of the job that you can't gauge. I'll tell you the first thing we learn is ourself first, our brother second, and the rest of you third, If I don't think I'll make it out, what good will I be to you?


Oh and Hey Danny boy,

Profession......A vocation or occupation requiring advanced education and training, and involving intellectual skills.

 

Great point. A dead firefighter/cop/EMT/whoever is no longer of assistance. Those who died may have let emotion overcome judgement, unfortunate as it may be.

Regardless of definitions, I personally believe the word "hero" gets tossed around rather quickly these days.

I served 8 years in the Marine Corps, but I don't feel that makes me a hero. Shortly after I joined the Beirut bombing took place, yet I do not consider my fallen brothers heros. I consider them men of honor, choosing to participate in a risky trade. I feel the same of the firemen/cops/etc. They are men and women who choose to take part in a profession that helps others, even though it may put them in harms way.


During WWII, many of the men that stormed the beaches on D-Day had volunteered even when they understood that many human lives would be lost for a greater cause. On some of these beaches a human live was taken approx every three seconds.

And as we debate this thread, there are military men involved in special operations to try to ensure that the chances of another such attack are minimized. They have had the time to consider the situation, and are putting themselves in a much more hostile environment than most can imagine. Several have died already, and others injured.

Strange, I haven't seen a lot of people wearing Army or Marine Corps shirts.....

 

well, thank you for all the definitions. yes i believe that people making money off of lost lives and to pay tribute is terrorible. I wear official stuff. i have family that are on both jobs, family as i previously stated that are my friends. we are close, it would affend them if i weren't wearing it correctly. true when the towers got hit it wasn't a fdny job. papd actually controlled the site but when they came down the fdny took over because they had the most men down. I served in the army and I don't consider myself a hero. have i done things where i can be called a hero? i really don't remember. heros don't do it for the glory. they just do it. why? i really don't know. would i run into a burning building to save somebody that i didn't know? yeah! human life should be preserved at all costs. plus I am just that stupid/crazy. I am a new yorker, need i say more. though it shocks me that so many people wear fdny, nypd gear. people usually hate ny's because of our attitude and selfish ways.

look around you and everyday someone is doing a heroic dead. your dad as somebody pointed out earlier. I just can't believe that so many people and heroes were lost in two hours.

do i wear army gear, hell yeah! I wear my bdu jacket all the time as well as my pt shirt. can't wear it that much as the women states i am no longer in the service. I will never forget that experience! ARMY PRIDE!!!!!!!!!!!

come to think of it, there is not that much attention about ground zero right now. Did you ever think that maybe seeing the hats or shirts gives some people a sense of safety and gives the firemen and cops a sense that people care. that maybe it helps them cope with this. they really didn't have time to say damn, johnny's dead or janies dead. they had to work. I have worked at ground zero several times and guys are disstraut( mispelled i no) I'll bet there will be an increase on prescriptions for paxil this year.

just my .02. curt

 

Ummmm, ok. feel better about yourself now? Maybe if you can calm down we can argue this like two adults, if you're capable of that. I wasn't trying to tear anyone down.

Here's the five criteria that define a profession:
1) Ample literature in that particular field
2) Research done by those in that field that is particular to that field
3) Code of ethics sworn to by all
4) Professional organization sworn to by all
5) Requisite for some formal education.

to be considered a profession, you must meet 4 out of those 5 criteria.

and as pertaining to police work and firefighting, is there ample literature in that particular field? YES
is there research done by those in that field that is particular to that field? NO
Is there a code of ethics sworn to by all? YES
is it a professional organization sworn to by all? NO
Is there a requisite for some formal education? NO

so, it only meets 2 of the 5 criteria. It's not a complete profession.
I don't know where you got your definition of profession from, but this is the one from Websters (this dictionary's only a year old): "a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation."

Now, you say you're an EMT. I wasn't referring to them and i can't speak intelligently about that because i don't know what the pre-requisites are for becoming an EMT or what kind of background is required.

so, maybe if you can calm down we can discuss this like adults.

 

in ny firemen and cops have to have college. cops have to have 60 credits and firemen have to have 29 i think. that's education.
thats 3 of 5, and aren't there national organizations for fd's. they are all sworn to the same code.

 

I know that to be a police officer in Memphis you have to have a college degree. Here you only have to have a high school diploma.

 

[sarcasm]
You mean to tell me
No research is ever done on the temperature it takes for flesh to melt, or the density of smoke it takes to completely fill ones lungs with oxegen starving carbon monoxide, or the ignition point of certain chemicals.
No organization to belong to.
No Formal education required.
Sounds great, I was going to apply at McDonalds, but now I wanna be a firefighter, where do I sign up?
[/sarcasm]

People, think about what you are saying.

 

wow... i am just thankful that there are police officers, fire fighters, and military personnel who put it on the line day after day nite after nite....to all of you thanks...hell in delaware the fire fighters are all volunteers...imagine doing it for nothing...god bless...

 

Heck no! They just give them some equipment and hoses and stuff! BTW, anyone know how to drive this big truck?

Why to you think so many former military get on the police force? They already learned how to shoot, so they can show the other guys.....


So if you ever get assistance from a cop, or EMT, or firefighter please remind them they aren't a professional. They don't have ample literature.

 

Aren't police and firemen still considered to be blue collar workers, or is that term passe?

 

i had a few points to make but jstang i think covered it quite well. i have to agree with him and jebus. these folks were doing their job. yes their job takes courage and strength but they chose it. much the way many of us chose to be in the military. the fact is if they weren't getting paid for it how many of them would have gone down there?
being a hero is going out of your way to help another, without any compensation or reward to yourself. going beyond "the call of duty" comes to mind.
don't get me wrong, i think we should all thank our local police and fireman and other public workers for their service, and for keeping us safe and cozy at home while they work their tails off. i have done this on many occasions whenever possible, even telling the officer i appreciate his work as he is writing me a speeding ticket. (yes i'm serious).

 

Well dan, its painfully obvious you have no idea whatsoever about todays Firefighting, and you comments reflect that lack of knowledge.
As busy as I am with moving, I'll give you some things you can reference.

Ever hear of IFSTA, NFPA,IAFF, NFIRS? thats only 4, I don't want to overwhem you.

You have some more reserch to do before posting such comments. Your still a twit!!