Who saw the story (I believe on Yahoo recently) about the vehicle built in America with the MOST American MANUFACTURED parts? Toyota Camry which I believe had 87% U.S. built parts. Beat GM, Ford & Chrysler in U.S. content. Something wrong with that picture. Shame on America for letting it happen, but it did happen and it's not likely to reverse. Give credit where it's due and the American auto industry was arrogant and asleep when it happened.

 

I hear the cry “but where do their profits go?” all the time. As I stated earlier in this thread, why does that matter? For instance, most car manufacturers sell cars all over the world. Toyota, Ford and GM for instance. And does anybody at Ford worry that some of their profit comes from sales in other countries? I haven’t seen any hue and cry as of yet.

At a more relatable level, what about the employees of the above mentioned companies? In fact, what about you and me? A significant chuck of my employer’s profits come from overseas. Does that worry me at all? No, in fact there were many years where if we didn’t make money overseas, we wouldn’t have made money at all.

How about the Americans they work for Toyota? By and large, they work in safe, modern, environmentally compliant factories. The towns they live in have collected significant tax revenue from Toyota as a result of them locating there. And as for tax breaks granted when Toyota was deciding where to locate, every single business in America asks for them when they look to build new facilities. Other businesses in those towns have also seen business (and tax revenue) go up significantly. Every vehicle built in these factories is taxed when it is sold. Every part built in the supplier factories is taxed when it is sold. I could go on and on, but I think you see where I’m going here. In short, the folks working for Toyota here in the US don’t care where the profits go as long as they can buy nice houses, cars, boats, send their kids to college and retire comfortably someday.

Finally, as to the profits that go back to Toyota, where do they go? Yes, in some cases, they do go back to Japan. Buy in many cases, they are reinvested in new factories or improvements to existing factories right here in the US. In fact if you count the amount of money that Toyota has reinvested in the US and compare it to Ford or GM, you may be in for something of a shock.

So I don’t buy the argument that the profits go someplace else. Yes, sometimes they do. But what tangible difference does that make for you and me?

 

You're looking at the smaller picture, guys.

We all know that 'foreign' manufacturers use parts made in the USA and visa versa. That's all well and good. But that's the smaller picture. Think big. I mean really, REALLY big!

Let's put it this way: What happens when sales for domestic companies swing to foreign companies (read as lost sales for the domestic company), and that trend continues during a domestic economic crisis? Figure that one out, and you have your tangible difference for you and me.

 

Oh, and 2stroked:

I don't know how I have missed your posts until now, but it is SO refreshing to see someone who knows how to complete coherent thoughts and sentences and is articulate.

 

DewserB,

First of all, I’m glad somebody appreciates the care I put into my posts. Thank you.

To your other point about where profits go and “domestic economic crisis,” you do bring up an interesting point. Many people think that if we just all bought things made here in the USA (which sounds all well and good) that we’d all be better off. Well, in a vacuum we might, but we don’t have everything we need to do that and neither does anybody else. Let’s see how that works.

If you were to look at a detailed Bill of Materials for an F-150 (since we are on an F-150 site), you’d find all sorts of separate part numbers that when assembled, make up a truck. But each one of those individual parts is made up of raw materials at some point. Some of those raw materials simply do not exist on any land belonging to the United States. So, we have to buy them from countries that do have them. In fact we generally buy things from them and they buy other things back from us. That’s the basis of international trade and it’s been going on for thousands of years. So part of the answer is that we need stuff from other countries to survive.

Some would argue (correctly) that some of these other countries are now making things that we used to make – for less money. This has led to American companies outsourcing jobs to those countries because it’s sometimes cheaper to make things offshore and ship them back here. (Trust me, the company that I work for has done way too much of this and is paying for it. And I will personally pay for it with my own job very soon.)

On the other hand, if these companies hadn’t outsourced the work, you’d be paying outrageous prices for certain products that you use every day. Realistically speaking, would you be willing to pay a dollar for the spoon you use at Burger King just so you could keep another American employed making $35/hr to pull them out of an Injection Molding Machine? Would you be willing to pay $1,500 for a lawn mower totally built in the US for the same reason? I’d suggest that you probably wouldn’t want to and you couldn’t afford it. So to a point, we’ve all benefitted from outsourcing because it’s kept prices reasonable.

So what we have – whether we like it or not – is a global economy. There’s simply no such thing as any one country being totally self sufficient and not being somehow linked to the rest of the world. Should some manufacturing be brought back here? Absolutely, positively yes! But some people (and unions) are going to have to figure out that in order for that to happen, a company has to be able to make money. After all, the purpose of a business is to make money – not to employ people. And even if jobs are brought back and companies make money, the whole world is still linked economically. This is why we should be watching what’s happening in Greece, Spain, Portugal, etc. very carefully. If they go down, we’re going to have some serious issues ourselves. But that’s another subject entirely.

 

Japanese car makers have US suppliers that make parts for them. I happen to work for one of them. We make parts for both US and Foreign brand vehicles.

 

First, let me say that I'm very sorry to hear that your job is being affected by outsourcing, and I wish you nothing but the best going forward.

I agree with and see every point you made. There's no doubt that we live in a time of a truly global economy, and that we depend on other countries for many commodities in order to keep our total investment and retail pricing to a minimum while maximizing profit margins for the corporate manufacturers and/or vendors.

I remember when steel went through the roof around 2007. Obviously, much of the steel (raw material) was coming out of China. Anti-dumping suits were flying around like fleas in Florida during a hurricane, the Chinese government countered in many cases by axing rebates, etc. So naturally, the price of steel went up....WAY up!

In the hardware business, our pricing is highly dependent upon the current and forecasted steel market, as well as other commodities. Several of our suppliers and vendors just flat out discontinued products that they had manufactured for decades because the price of the steel to make that product had gone up exponentially...literally exponentially. It was a juggling act because the demand for said products not only still existed, but actually skyrocketed! It's the old supply-and-demand principle we learned about in high school.

A few months later, I was at a Ford dealership looking at trucks. There were two trucks sitting side-by-side that were the same model year and had the exact same packages, features, etc. Item for item (except for the paint), they were identical. One of the trucks was nearly $2500 more than the other. I had a suspicion as to why that was, so I asked the sales manager. Sure enough, the build date on the truck that was $2500 more was considerably later than the other truck. In fact, it was built a few months after all the increases in steel.

These are examples of how the raw materials that used to be cheaper as an outsourced product immediately became not-so-much-cheaper, and because what's left of our steel mills can't handle our current total demand, there was nothing we could do about it domestically. So, the piper had to be paid.

I guess I said all of that to say - I certainly understand how global suppliers of raw materials will dictate prevailing market conditions, etc. And although I'm not willing to pay $1 for a spoon at Burger King (YUCK!! ) in order to keep an American employed at $35/hr, I AM willing to buy a truck that costs about the same as an import but is built buy a domestic, 'American' company that employs Americans. The fact that domestic companies use profits to continue to source from other countries is just the nature of the beast. However, when enough people stop buying cars from 'American' companies, apparently the good citizens and tax payers of the country have to pay...and pay....and pay....

 

Debates like this are really still going on?? LOOK AT THE SALES NUMBERS.

 

Silly misguided nationalism, it's both funny and embarrassing.


Nice Tundra OP, looks great.

 

Whose sales numbers and when?

That's not the only thing 'funny and embarrassing' around here. Informative and well-thought-out post.

 

Hmmmmm.... Is this still a f150 forum? Toyota huh! LMAO Just kiddin Dude! Nice ride!

 

As I've said a long time ago on this forum: the new Tundra looks like a Ram with Down's Syndrome

 

 

He should put a K&N air filter in it.

 

That's one way of looking at it. I always thought it looked like a retarded catfish.