After reading the recent threads about the Colorado tragedy, I decided to post some thoughts on this.

A friend of mine brought up an interesting point. Maybe this argument shouldn't be about gun control, but more about mental health care.
It's no secret that this country has health care problems. Everyone talks about primary health care, filling prescriptions, check ups, ER visits, surgery, blah blah blah blah. The reason is this type of medicine is "sexy". It's what people view as true health care, medicine treating ailments. It's fixing issues with drugs, bright lights, and cold steel.

However, people don't think of psych services as "true" healthcare. It's the ugly red headed step child of health care. A look back through history shows a blatant disregard for psych services. While the system has improved, unfortunately it's not perfected.

I've worked in EMS for 5 years. In those years I've dealt with hundreds of psych patients. The pattern usually goes like this.. John Smith is having a bad day. He decides he's going to go to the hospital for some psychiatric help. He arrives and talks to the Dr, states that he's having some crazy thoughts. The doc then decides that the patient needs psych services. Phone calls are made and the hospital tries to find the nearest psych bed. 75% of the time, these beds are located in small critical access hospitals, 3-4 hours away from the original hospital. This now means that Mr. Smith is going to be taken by ambulance, 3 hours away, to a small hospital, for 1-2 weeks worth of treatment. Now this trip will most likely be billed to the tax payers. Private insurance usually keeps them in town or transfers them to a private facility. Unfortunately, most psych patients do not have insurance. The reason he is being transferred 3 hours outside of town? Because 25 John Smiths came into the ER today seeking psych treatment. The night before? 25 more. Beds fill up fasted then they can dump half treated people out on the street.

The system can simply not handle the amount of traffic that it receives. Much like the rest of the system, it’s over loaded. Unlike the rest of medicine, psych does not have a lot of money in it. It’s a huge pit of never ending spending, that may or may not be helping its patients.

So what if we did have a comprehensive psych eval system. A system that encouraged people to open up about issues, without the fear of being labeled “crazy” by society? Would this have prevented such a tragedy from occurring? If the CO shooter had services available that would guarantee treatment, a place to vent, and a place to find help, do you think he would have pursued the venue he did? I don’t know, and I don’t think we ever will. I am a huge advocate for improved psych services, and I fully believe that psych issues are a very treatable, and curable disease.

So the question I pose to all of you is… Would stricter gun control laws have prevented the tragedy in Colorado, or would a better supported psychiatric system have identified the problem, and fixed it before it happened?

I'd like to have a honest and frank discussion about this. Let's keep it civil and keep it honest. I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

-Ben

 

Well said. Additionally, if a mentally ill person did not have access to guns and wanted to kill a bunch of people, he/she could also just build a bomb.
There will always be a way of killing people. Agree 100%. Mental Health issues get swept under the proverbial rug.

 

Gun control......haha......

This guy should've been on somebody's radar....

The cops can't figure out how to disarm the fire bomb in his apartment


A mental health institution shouldve been where he was supposed to be living....

 

I agree. While the idea of monitoring everyone is impractical, I believe there should atleast be some sort of routine mental health care screening, similar to general health care screening.

 

If only one armed citizen was there, it could have been stopped. The notion that it is against the law for human beings to protect themselves is ridiculous.

 

I'm with you. However, I don't know that someone could have for sure stopped him, but at least someone could have actually had a chance to try. That alone should be reason enough to carry.

 

Regarding the OP topic:

Outside of one semester in college, I haven't studied much psychology. I don't know how realistic it is to say we can catch these things before they happen, be it by more screening or self admittance. The concept of people checking themselves in because of their issues is flawed. We are now relying on the people with warped morals and judgement to decide they need help. If they could make that decision on their own, I doubt we would have an issue to begin with.

I really don't think gun control would have made a true difference. There is no denying the fact, if no guns were available to him, he could have not shot the place up. These people are messed up in the head. News reports have said his house was booby trapped with explosives. Had guns not been available, he just as easily could have made explosives to use in the theater.

There are over 300 million people in the United States, the percentage of nutjobs isn't too high.

 

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haha love everyone of them. because well they are true??

what would i have done to change this?

i would have put 1 or 2 CPL holders with handguns ready to go in the movie that day.

i would have gladly sat in one of those chairs. yes i know he had a vest and this and that. but im sure one of my .45's would have found some flesh head/throat area.

yes guns are pretty easy to get in the US but you make them harder to get then we the people who obey the law have a harder time to defend ourselfs.

look at the UK no guns for 20+ years still gun murders... look at mexico no guns aloud there...still the cartels murder everyone....you ban guns you take away law abiding citizens means to defend them selfs.

look at AZ you dont hear about to many of this kind of shooting happening why?? because in AZ you can conceal carry with NO PERMIT

 

i went to see batman today and i sat there knowing my family was safe because i always have my H&K 357 sig on my side

 

Nope, but me with a .45 would have liked to help stop it.

Adrianspeeder

 

Nice posters Shifty!

 

Can't legally carry inside a movie theater here in Danksville.

Signs posted everywhere.

I always put mine in my safe before entering the theater, cuz that's the law.

Think Imma gonna start frequenting the drive-in theater more often.

 

What...!!!

So you are sitting there in the dark in a movie theatre aand someone starts shooting at random......how many people are killed before you even realise what is going on...then you ferret around for your gun (Or do you carry it in a holster), identify where the gunman is...in the dark by the way...and 'take him out'.
Would you have stopped it?
Of course not...people would already be dead or dying around you.
And once you start shooting...hoping to hit the gunman...his attention would be turned on you, probably killing a few of YOUR family and friends sitting or cowering around you.
WAKE UP TO THE REALITY OF WHAT THE SITUATION YOU ARE IN WOULD BE.
It's not the movie situation of your dreams...you being the hero....no it's the movie situation of everyone's nightmare !!

 

[QUOTE=Lenticular;4871782]What...!!!

identify where the gunman is...in the dark by the way...aQUOTE]


the gunman is where the loud noises and bright lights are coming from. shoot there.

 

Was the movie theatre in Aurora a “gun free zone”? It’s worth noting that “Gun Free Zones” turn out to be, in practice, “Unarmed Victim Zones”. For example, Mexico is a “Gun Free Zone”; that is, people in Mexico are prohibited from owning or carrying a weapon without state permission. There are less than 3 million permitted weapons in the country, not counting the government’s stash. Their government claims there are more than 15 million unpermitted guns. The population of Mexico is about 114 million, though it is not clear whether this number actually live in Mexico, or the US.
In 2003, the state legislature and the governor deemed that the power to address gun violence in Colorado through laws SHALL NOT be in the domain of the affected communities, rather it should rest only in the hands of the state. By this legislation (SB03-25), all of the city ordinances in the state have been declared unenforceable. Denver has sued the state over this; results pending. At this point, the best that could be said is that most residents probably aren’t clear on what the gun laws are in any given locale, just that there are some.
In any event, the gun laws in effect in Aurora, state and local, did not prevent James Holmes from carrying a gun into a movie theatre and killing people; though it’s a safe bet that he had cause to believe he would be the only one there with a gun.
Sarcasm = On
Piers Morgan, the activist with a history of crime and news fraud (aka “lying”) masquerading as a “journalist”, calls for more gun laws in the wake of this shooting, completely ignoring the facts and the history of this case and such incidents in general. He failed to specify which law would have prevented this. He is not alone in this. Some have found “Tea Party” links. I have it on good authority – at least as good as that of those making Tea Party involvement accusations – that James Holmes, the suspect, is a life-long member of the Democratic Party and a liberal in good standing, having failed both his third attempt at the bar and a second attempt at a journalism decree before dropping out of medical school, and is a card-carrying member of Green Peace and Planned Parenthood, as well as a staunch supporter of his local “Occupy” tribe, among a plethora of left leaning associations. It is a fact he is widely recognized as a promising MSNBC intern and life-long “companion” of Al Sharpton, the activist who smeared feces on a black child to promote a false accusation of rape. MSM outlets can be expected to argue all of the above before reading any of it.
Sarcasm = Off.
Which are the facts? You decide! (PS- my comments re the criminal history of those named are facts. You can Look It Up!).