what's so funny Frank? Maybe the lord will provide us with a better source some day....

 

Well why dont you look at UncleJessie's post. Seems like people are making money with alternative energy.

 

Sure seems like it. Considering the amount of tax payer subsidies, seems like more people are losing money. I guess that's ok, if your thinking it's "other peoples money".

Alternative energy sources are awsome. I'm all for them, and for more efficiency with what we already have.

In my field, there are tons of new, high tech products coming out that I can't wait to test so that I can sell our customers something good. The problem is, there are rebates and tax credits, but very few consistantly reliable products that I feel really comfortable reccomending to our customers.

The point is, alternatives are great, but if this rush to market continues, we are going to have nothing but junk that's going to cost consumers a fortune, and is going to have to be replaced every ten years, perhaps less. That's not efficient. It's assinine.

Unintended consequences. That's what you get when you rush something through.

 

Precisely.

 

You are the one that beats the drum on subsidies, but you think this.

Also a lot of states have renewable energy bills that require energy companies to purchase a minimum amount of energy from renewable sources, regardless of the rate ( the wind farms can charge above market rate prices ).

Examples like wind farms have little risk to the company building it ( usually less than 15% of their own money ) the government is funding the project for big dollars, where anywhere else, the company running the project would be told to go jump in lake. The government ( federal, state and local ) are funding over $1 b for each one of these large wind farms, and making laws to require energy companies to buy from them ( with no regulations on the cost of the power as traditional power generation ).

The amounts are above and beyond the tax credits US companies get for US manufacture of products and the likes. I refer to the all but 1 "subsidy" that the clowns in the senate went after big oil about ( the same list Walmart & Menards get ).

To use what would have been a better look at the $ 1.2T in tax breaks in the tax code for corporations ( Walmart, ExxonMobil, GE, etc ) :
Where is your outrage for corporate subsidies when it comes to renewable energy ?
The tax breaks for renewable energy are almost 50x what oil companies get for the same unit of energy produced.
Mind you, hydroelectric is included in the renewable energy column ( and calculations ), but hydroelectric does not get the same tax breaks as wind and solar ( it is inline with GE, Menards, Ford, etc ), so the real number if hydroelectric is removed from the calculations is going to look that much worse.

 

Yes, I want subsidies gone. Did I ever say "we need to take away all oil subsidies and give alot more green energy subsidies"?

Besides, subsidies are not going away with a spineless congress.

I was definetly complaining about GE grabbing all the subsidies.

 

no, but this is what the Senate is up to.

no, the big oil was was at oil companies ( the one you claimed the gov was handing them checks ).

Aside from GE, don't forget Menards, Ford, the phara companies, oh, GM, and all the other companies that qualify.

The actual subsidies and tax breaks, that is the companies building the wind farms, and don't forget the Energy companies for taking it on the chin for purchasing ( by government mandate ) more expensive power.

 

The Alta Wind Energy Center is being constructed in my county.

Lots of propaganda out there about how great it is. It is supposed to eventually produce 1.5 Gigawatts of peak power.

I've heard total land area is 9,000 acres, +- (about 14 square miles), but that's hard to verify as very few of the articles mention the acreage.

Google and Citibank got some recent ink for putting in $55 million each to finance one of the eight phases. The developer, Terra-Gen, will lease back the facility from Google/Citi (Citi has also financed some of the other phases).

Terra-Gen has long term engergy contracts with Califoria power companies, who are forced by state government mandate to get 20%+ of their power from renewable sources.

 

Really? Windstream (they make wind turbines) in Little Rock has laid off hundreds of people in the last two years. Seems like those folks never got the memo.

 

Maybe he meant alternative energy puts people to work in China?

IMO, while there are some jobs in 'green' energy, forcing everyone to buy expensive energy results in a net job loss.

 

Now why you gotta go looking deeper into things and ruining a good story?

 

Just to throw this on the table, I have a friend that decided to take up an offer of free land in Australias outback. All he had to do was settle on it. Don't remember the name of the area but he had neighbors that were several miles away but neighbors anyway. He had to haul gas and diesel about 300 miles for the generator and his truck. He had a 500 gallon trailer he pulled. You have to get permits to do this too. He also had a small building that housed lead acid batteries that were charged from a wing generator. Everyday you had to know the weather and the amount of electricity in the batteries so you had a clue how much juice you could run that day. Sometimes you had air conditioning, sometimes you cooked outside. We could easily become the same scenario not because the fuels aren't there, politics says you can't have it. So we dream up alternative sources and like it was said, sometimes with unintended consequences. Kinda like the Dr Paul engine that would eliminate any fuel shortages and eliminate most of the carbon footprint on the planet. You can't have it because it would just about bankrupt every nation due to no tax income from the fuel. Unintended consequences.

I don't know the company name but the wind generators they are putting up in Texas comes from Houston. The word Chinese is not a good thing here even though a lot of the new oil field technologies are coming over from China. There's a lot of oil field folks now that don't speak English and they don't speak Spanish either. Now the Chinese are talking about fracturing the crude around Carrizo Springs. That will just about destroy every water well within 100 miles. Unintended consequences? The Chinese could care less.

 

This is beyond reaching.

The amount of tax collected on fuel is nowhere near what personal income taxes are for the US, and is close to other taxes such as sales tax on general merchandise.

Found a quick example for OH in 2001 ( based on 1999 payments ), The FY2001 federal revenue attributed to Ohio was $ 1.36 B over 6.5 B gallons of fuel ( all types ). The collected tax amount in OH was $ 1.3073 B ( after refunds of tax money for fuel logs - transfer to another state or operating on private roads reduction ).

Ohio uses the money for surfaces, water way management ( counter the water run off from roads and parking lots with the impact on water quality ) and public transportation are the big line items in the expenses for the same FY2001.

Use an increase ( which to get to your statement would mean fuel tax would have increased 25x or more since 2001 ) estimate to fuel taxes, to compare to the 2009 sales tax revenues for OH. Let's just call it $ 1.8B, 28% increase in tax revenues collected ( cut up between rate increase, and usage increase - which is in itself reaching ).

OH sales and use tax as a whole took in $ 7.325 B in revenue, Tax on liquor alone was $ 33.6 M, General Merchandise stores taxes collected was $ 1.115 B. Real quick the general merchandise sales tax ( alone ) collected is 65% of fuel tax amount in OH, using an estimated 28% increase in fuel taxes in 10 years.

I have not even compared it to personal income or corporate taxes collected.

You post opinions, and slightly related URLs to try to present something as a fact.
I have not even got to the part about how the engine is not made due to costs, not the government "hiding it" from the public for fear of losing taxes ( they would increase other taxes to make up for it ).
You claim this engine running somewhere in So Cal. To quote you " URL or it did not happen"....