2012 Election

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 30, 2011 | 04:22 PM
  #46  
RSchnier's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Rochester, MN
Originally Posted by Frank S
But you would rather cast a vote for a man (Obama) who has nothing but socialist/marxist friends? Oh brother.
It's a fair criticism, and I definitely held my nose while casting my vote. But Sarah had demonstrated multiple times in her public interactions that she was utterly, completely, and totally unprepared for even the possibility of assuming the presidency, for example as commander in chief of our armed forces, responsible for ensuring the defense of the nation.

And it had nothing to do whatsoever with her gender. I would gladly have voted for Hillary over Barry.
 
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2011 | 04:31 PM
  #47  
RSchnier's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Rochester, MN
Originally Posted by screwyou
And Obama, the community organizer, with Biden, foot-n-mouth guy, were a better choice...
Than Sarah? Unfortunately (very unfortunately), yes. McCain obviously thought that picking her would gain him some votes. I suspect that he made the choice on superficial characteristics and regretted it fairly soon after, even before the election. And particularly the negligence of his organization not doing a better vetting.
 
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2011 | 04:44 PM
  #48  
Silver07's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182
Likes: 6
From: West Columbia, SC
Originally Posted by 06bluemeaniexl
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,2499680.story

Discuss.

I know who I'm voting for.
I care only about myself and I will vote accordingly. If something causes you pain, discomfort or economic distress and I think that it may in some way bring me down, I will care about you or your kind. At any rate, my own comfort and economic success is my number one preoccupation.

I could never be selfless. I will care about others if it helps me have a better day. For crap sake, I will even use my turn signal if I have to.
 
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2011 | 09:23 PM
  #49  
SSCULLY's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,511
Likes: 10
From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
....<snip>....

Out of all of this crap, not one single person has gone to prison for this financial meltdown. Even Reagan made sure people came to justice (well except the Bush family...but...).....<snip>....
So you are calling for Bill Clinton to be put in jail for using $ 1B ( somehow not tax payers' money, as if the federal gov got a part time job at McD to get the additional money ) funneled into HUD to offset the mortgages on low income families ?

This is the start of the housing appetite that the US developed.
When did the 1st mortgage company take it on the chin when these types of loans starting coming back as not paid ? That would be Countrywide, in case you forgot already, back in the 90s.

The line was 'write the mortgages, don't care how, make it happen'.
Hello 100% financing, oh you need to get a car and 2 full credit cards paid off to make the monthly payment on the house, hello 125% mortgage.

Clinton wanted a chicken in every pot, and a house to keep that pot in. He even made the announcement in Oakland, CA, as the target market for getting people into houses.

You keep calling for heads to roll ( without any proof of a crime ) but fail to point the finger at the source of the housing frenzy. Your boy, the great speaker, the 1 man that could bring everyone together.
 
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2011 | 10:13 PM
  #50  
1depd's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Year Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 691
Likes: 1
From: Gulf Coast
Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
Habitat homes are built by volunteers using cheap parts. They aren't going to be the same quality as a custom built home constructed by top contractors.
The materials used around here are purchased at Home Depot and Lowes, just like the parts in my house. The only parts of the house built by volunteers are the parts that do not have to be inspected. That leaves out pretty much all of the important things like, electrical, plumbing, major carpentry, foundation, roof, and siding in my area. Volunteers have no effect how long a window stays unbroken, how long a door stays laminated, how long a screen door stay in one piece, or how well maintained a yard appears. Do not be fooled into believing these villages are nice places to live. They are typically drug and crime infested and not desirable in any way shape or form.

Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
Again, until we both cut spending on all things including DEFENSE and the pay we give politicians along with sharp increases in taxes, we won't lower deficits and make headway with our debt.
Raising tax rates now will only hurt the economy. Getting the economy back on track using proven techniques will result in more taxes being collected. Adding more major government programs and increasing government spending is not the way to improve the economy. It has never worked and I will bet it never will.
 
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2011 | 11:42 PM
  #51  
K-Mac Attack's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Originally Posted by SSCULLY
So you are calling for Bill Clinton to be put in jail for using $ 1B ( somehow not tax payers' money, as if the federal gov got a part time job at McD to get the additional money ) funneled into HUD to offset the mortgages on low income families ?

This is the start of the housing appetite that the US developed.
When did the 1st mortgage company take it on the chin when these types of loans starting coming back as not paid ? That would be Countrywide, in case you forgot already, back in the 90s.

The line was 'write the mortgages, don't care how, make it happen'.
Hello 100% financing, oh you need to get a car and 2 full credit cards paid off to make the monthly payment on the house, hello 125% mortgage.

Clinton wanted a chicken in every pot, and a house to keep that pot in. He even made the announcement in Oakland, CA, as the target market for getting people into houses.

You keep calling for heads to roll ( without any proof of a crime ) but fail to point the finger at the source of the housing frenzy. Your boy, the great speaker, the 1 man that could bring everyone together.

I am no defender of Clinton either. He was nothing more than a Republican light.

I find it funny that the people that are called Liberals today would have been Republicans back in the day. We haven't had true Liberals in power in a long time. Someone like Thurgood Marshall was a Liberal. It is just that today's Conservatives are so far right that moderates appear to be Liberals.

Clinton allowed for a lot of the heads to turn away from regulating businesses and banks. When they let bank holding companies and insurance companies to intermingle, they created a disaster waiting to happen.

I encourage everyone to watch a CNBC special called House of Cards. It is pretty enlightening and they talk to a lot of people that were right in the middle of this crap.

I don't give a pass to the home buyers that were out there either. They knew they were lying on these stated income, 125% to equity, crap loans they were getting. The government didn't force these banks to give them out but the banks saw it as a new market and jumped in head first.

It used to take 90 days to get a mortgage as you needed tax returns, they actually investigated everything about you before you got a loan including talking to your references, visiting your job, etc. It got to the point your loan could be approved online in 30 seconds or less.
 
Reply
Old Apr 30, 2011 | 11:52 PM
  #52  
K-Mac Attack's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Chicago
Originally Posted by 1depd
The materials used around here are purchased at Home Depot and Lowes, just like the parts in my house. The only parts of the house built by volunteers are the parts that do not have to be inspected. That leaves out pretty much all of the important things like, electrical, plumbing, major carpentry, foundation, roof, and siding in my area. Volunteers have no effect how long a window stays unbroken, how long a door stays laminated, how long a screen door stay in one piece, or how well maintained a yard appears. Do not be fooled into believing these villages are nice places to live. They are typically drug and crime infested and not desirable in any way shape or form.
True they may buy the stuff at Home Depot or wherever, but I can buy a $8 faucet or a $200 faucet at Home Depot.

That said, I agree that these people often don't care about their stuff and destroy it. Even if they do care, they can't afford to fix it anyway. I'm not saying they deserve or should have a home at all. Most are in places that no one in their right mind wants to live.

Originally Posted by 1depd
Raising tax rates now will only hurt the economy. Getting the economy back on track using proven techniques will result in more taxes being collected. Adding more major government programs and increasing government spending is not the way to improve the economy. It has never worked and I will bet it never will.
What are those proven techniques? We haven't used them in the last 35 years or so.

I do know that slashing taxes hasn't brought us to prosperity. Using the same flawed method to get us out of the ditch that got us there doesn't seem right. You certainly aren't going to pay down the debt without raising taxes. We take in $2-3 trillion a year in tax revenue. Spend $4-5 trillion. You are going to have to do more than cut public broadcasting and funding for the arts to balance that budget!

I do not say raise the taxes on most people. However, a progressive tax rate that has the highest level at a point that discourages taking those kinds of profits will lead to reinvestment and growing businesses.

Exxon-Mobil wouldn't be posting record profits if the top end rate was 75-80%, they would be reinvesting those profits to find alternate energy.

I personally don't buy the crap that we are running out of oil. That said, the issues right now aren't supply and demand. Oil prices are skyrocketing yet levels of reserves are full. The market is being manipulated. That is something that isn't supposed to happen with Capitalism.
 

Last edited by K-Mac Attack; Apr 30, 2011 at 11:54 PM.
Reply
Old May 1, 2011 | 08:13 AM
  #53  
1depd's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Year Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 691
Likes: 1
From: Gulf Coast
Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
True they may buy the stuff at Home Depot or wherever, but I can buy a $8 faucet or a $200 faucet at Home Depot.
Unless you have a house built for you, the builder will put in the contractor grade of everything. Granted on the high end they put in better stuff, but for the rest of us it is contractor grade. That is what they do to save money. The SAME $8 faucet used in the Habitat houses is used in stock house plans. If you buy a house that was built without a buyer waiting in the wings the contractor will not spend extra money on it unless it is a higher end house. I've walked through enough partially built houses in the last 5-10 years to have seen this.

Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
What are those proven techniques? We haven't used them in the last 35 years or so.
Uh....yes, we have. We used them when Reagan took office and again after 9-11. The only thing Bush didn't do that Reagan did is slowly allow the rates to go back up as the economy improved. Reagan saw that taxes needed to go back up and allowed them to do so SLOWLY. This also gives the government room to cut them back down again in case of a slow down. Bush did not do that and kept them low. Raising taxes during a recession does nothing but slow down the economy and since we are in the beginning phases of a recovery raising them would result in slipping back into recession. Obama isn't seeking to raise taxes slowly, he wants a sudden large increase on the wealthiest in the country. That is a sure recipe for recession.


Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
I do not say raise the taxes on most people. However, a progressive tax rate that has the highest level at a point that discourages taking those kinds of profits will lead to reinvestment and growing businesses.

Exxon-Mobil wouldn't be posting record profits if the top end rate was 75-80%, they would be reinvesting those profits to find alternate energy.
Raising taxes on the wealthy results in increased prices to the consumer and less new investment. Why should the wealthy invest to grow their business when the ROI is so low. They must be rewarded for their risk, and higher taxes eats into that reward. Add to that the fact that the economy is shaky at best and the incentive to reinvest is not there. That is another reason you don't raise taxes during a recession. The way to get business owners to expand during a recession is to lower the risks of that expansion, decreasing taxes does that.

Exxon-Mobil doesn't care how much profit there is. They are not people, they are business, what they care about is keeping their shareholders happy. What keeps a shareholder happy is dividends and increased value, preferably both. Just so you know at the end of the year an inventory has to be conducted by all businesses, an the dollar value of an increase in materials is included in taxable income. So yes they get the deduction from the debit for the expense of expansion, but it gets added back in as an increase in supplies.
 
Reply
Old May 1, 2011 | 09:57 AM
  #54  
SSCULLY's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,511
Likes: 10
From: Under the flightpath of old ORD 22R
Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
...<snip>....
I don't give a pass to the home buyers that were out there either. They knew they were lying on these stated income, 125% to equity, crap loans they were getting. The government didn't force these banks to give them out but the banks saw it as a new market and jumped in head first....<snip>....
Don't forget this was pushed by HUD. You seem to have some idea that banks only did this out of greed. Had nothing to Do with Clinton getting $1B of non taxpayer money out of thin air, and pushing it on the banks to make this happen.

The other thing, you call for jail time, but cannot quote 1 law that was broken. Sounds like you want bankers to go to jail, just for the heck of it.

Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
...<snip>....It used to take 90 days to get a mortgage as you needed tax returns, they actually investigated everything about you before you got a loan including talking to your references, visiting your job, etc. It got to the point your loan could be approved online in 30 seconds or less.
What banks did this, and when ? The documentation and verification of funds, but going to your job ???

Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
....<snip>...
I do know that slashing taxes hasn't brought us to prosperity. ....<snip>...
Cutting taxes will not magically upright the economy, but Regan proved that cutting taxes will aid in correcting what Carter did, and it takes time ( actually 3 terms to get back to close to normal ). What did Carter do, push alternative energy, install less than efficient solar panels on the white house, go on TV at night in a sweater like Mr Rogers, and tell Americans they need to lower their thermostat, all the while creating tons of give away programs.

Clinton did prove that raising taxes will lower income, JEC report from 1996 ( this same report also validated that what happened with taxes in the Regan administration was the correct thing to do ).

Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
....<snip>... Using the same flawed method to get us out of the ditch that got us there doesn't seem right. You certainly aren't going to pay down the debt without raising taxes. We take in $2-3 trillion a year in tax revenue. Spend $4-5 trillion. You are going to have to do more than cut public broadcasting and funding for the arts to balance that budget! ....<snip>...
Cutting taxes did not get the budget here, but 1 thing that is proven is raising taxes does not lead to more income to the government.

Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
....<snip>... Exxon-Mobil wouldn't be posting record profits if the top end rate was 75-80%, they would be reinvesting those profits to find alternate energy.....<snip>...
Exxon-Mobil is not posting record profits now, nor for the past few years. They are down off the high. To be correct, last year they got a tax credit overall due to previous year losses, and the income they had.
You need to look at the whole year, not the MSM's little sound bites of profits up 70% over last year lines...Those comments can only be meant to further polarize the population, and it seems to be working by your post.

Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
....<snip>...I personally don't buy the crap that we are running out of oil. That said, the issues right now aren't supply and demand. Oil prices are skyrocketing yet levels of reserves are full. The market is being manipulated. That is something that isn't supposed to happen with Capitalism.
You make this general statement about manipulation ( and the incorrect statement about supply and demand ), but fail to do any research on what is actually happening.

Oil prices are slightly down over the past few weeks, and supply is gaining, but gas supply is dropping, while the demand is still going up.
If you did the research you would know the supply - demand curve is what is driving the price for fuel, as refining capacity is at the limit.

I know the facts will get in the way of your hate speech towards big business and trying to paint them as part of the reason the country is in this place.
 
Reply
Old May 1, 2011 | 10:45 AM
  #55  
glc's Avatar
glc
Senior Member
15 Year Member
Veteran: Navy
Veteran: Reserves
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 43,530
Likes: 817
From: Joplin MO
I will be following the polls, and will vote for whichever candidate has the BEST chance of beating Obama in the Republican primary. As far as I'm concerned, ANY Republican - or even an Independent - would be better than the moron that's in there now.
 
Reply
Old May 1, 2011 | 12:28 PM
  #56  
05BlackFX4's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 0
From: Washington
Originally Posted by glc
I will be following the polls, and will vote for whichever candidate has the BEST chance of beating Obama in the Republican primary. As far as I'm concerned, ANY Republican - or even an Independent - would be better than the moron that's in there now.

Sorry but Obama def is far better than smart old Bush
 
Reply
Old May 1, 2011 | 12:43 PM
  #57  
jgger's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 6
From: Corona, Crazyfornia
Originally Posted by 05BlackFX4
Sorry but Obama def is far better than smart old Bush
News flash! Georgh Bush can't run again.

And again, my Springer Spaniel would be better than O-Blame-uh!
 
Reply
Old May 1, 2011 | 12:50 PM
  #58  
RSchnier's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
From: Rochester, MN
Originally Posted by K-Mac Attack
However, a progressive tax rate that has the highest level at a point that discourages taking those kinds of profits will lead to reinvestment and growing businesses.

Exxon-Mobil wouldn't be posting record profits if the top end rate was 75-80%, they would be reinvesting those profits to find alternate energy.
The evidence indicates otherwise. The US has among the highest corporate tax rates in the world. As a result, companies try to earn as much of their profit as possible outside the US, where it will be taxed at a lower rate. They do this, among other ways, by moving operations outside of the US, taking the jobs associated with those operations with them.

I've always laughed when people say "stop giving corporations tax breaks to outsource US jobs overseas." The only "tax break" the corporations have in that regard is the one created by our tax rates being higher than other countries' rates -- they get the "break" by choosing to earn their money outside of the US as a result. How do we stop giving them that break? Well, since we can't force other countries to raise their rates, we would seem to need to lower ours, now wouldn't we?

I'm not saying that US corporate tax rates are the only reason that US jobs are moving out of the US -- currency exchange rates in other countries play a role also. But the US tax rates relative to other countries certainly aren't helping matters.
 
Reply
Old May 2, 2011 | 11:46 AM
  #59  
blu3expy's Avatar
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by jgger
News flash! Georgh Bush can't run again.

And again, my Springer Spaniel would be better than O-Blame-uh!
good thing bush was no good
 
Reply
Old May 2, 2011 | 10:28 PM
  #60  
05BlackFX4's Avatar
Technical Article Contributor
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 0
From: Washington
Originally Posted by jgger
News flash! Georgh Bush can't run again.

And again, my Springer Spaniel would be better than O-Blame-uh!
not to sound like a ****...but duh

I was simply stating that I would rather have Obama in office over Bush....at least Obama sounds intelligent and not an embarrasment to the entire globe
 
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:16 PM.