stirring the pot I see...

I agree that him releasing this information would be easy. That said at this point if he wasn't born in the US would put him in all kinds of trouble.

The Tea Partiers are all preaching about sticking to the Constitution. You have to take the good with the bad.

Under the Constitution he has no obligation to testify against himself. Same way as you can't force people to take polygraph tests or such.

No, the people who truly hate him would still hate him. Just like the people who love him would still love him if it was proven he was not eligible for the presidency.

By not putting the issue to rest, he risks losing the support of the middle of the road people who were willing to give him a chance.

Not sure why he is willing to take this risk, if he's got the documentation and nothing to hide.

Sure, he can stand on principle and his rights to avoid self incrimination. But people expect the president to exhibit a higher standard.

IMO, unless the unemployment rate goes WAY down in the next 20 months, he's out. If he chooses to make a big confession about his place of birth in some future autobiography, the nation will deal with it when the time comes.

And to think I had to produce a certified birth certificate when appling for a passport....you would thik Obummy would also do. Guess not. :coffee:

So the guy that swears it doesn't exist, is a white male with a shaved head.....So what do you think Obamas peeps are gonna say about that?

The short form we have all seen is what you are required to provide to get a passport.

When the wife and I went on our honeymoon, we needed passports and I had no idea where mine was. I ordered a copy from the State of Missouri and I got the very same short form copy. It is also the same kind of copy I got for all 3 of my kids.

I did find long form copies for my parents who were born in the 1940's but on younger people I've never seen it. I work for a university and sometimes we need birth certificate copies for students and most students provide the short form that looks more like a car title.

Again, this is a no win thing for him. If he produces something, there will be conspiracy theorists to say it's false anyway. If illegal Mexicans can do it, I bet the POTUS can too :).

You rang? :lol:

Seriously, it doesn't happen very often but I agree with wit on this one.
It's entirely reasonable for the guy to just produce it and put it to rest.

Maybe old jug ears is getting stubborn in his old age but if he's got nothing to hide, why won't he just produce it? :confused:

Hey look! That pig is flying!:lol:


Well, I'm not not an expert either, which is why I don't get all high and mighty on this issue. I'm not a birther. Just someone who doesn't understand why someone wouldn't lay this to rest once and for all. If the long form doesn't exist, how about some college documents? Show us something that is more convincing than what we have so far. If you read the articals that Frank posted links to, it's fair to say that reasonable doubt has been cast.


For thoes of you worried about the birthers not being satiated by "proof", why do you care? So what if someone doesn't believe the proof that is produced? You say that the birthers are stupid, so why are you worried about that they are going to think?

Well said.

If I had it, I'd produce it.

If Wit had it, he'd produce it.

If Habs had it, he'd produce it.

If Frank had it, he'd produce it.

If Kmac had it, he'd produce it.

If.....

and so it goes on, add your name to the list.

Can't we all make a simple deduction from this narrative?

IF HE HAD IT, HE WOULD HAVE PRODUCED IT!!!!!

Maybe he left it in the back of his jeans and when his ma did laundry, it got all fluffed up into lint?

Now as POTUS, he's just too darn busy to go through the process and get another one?

Just playing Devil's advocate :lol:

I guess you have not been following his vacation and golf schedule very closely. It appears he's got plenty of time, for recreation anyways.

Say, you weren't one of the libs who had a meltdown everytime W took a day off? I just mention it because Barry takes far more time off, and never gets heat for it like W used to.

In all honesty, I teased GW a lot about not being the sharpest knife in the drawer but I never said squat about vacation days.
I think those guys are working just about 24/7 regardless of where they happen to be.

W also had a certain endearing quality in his personality although I did like his dad a little more.

All partisan BS aside Dave, this entire 2 party system is set up so there can only be one winner and it's the American public who pays while the foxes are raiding the henhouse.

The system is broken.

Agreed.

IMO, the way to fix it is to return to our Constitution, mainly by decentralizing power out of Washington DC.

FWIW, if we are going to start paying attention to the Constitution again, it does specify who is and who isn't eligible to be President. Our current president was elected without having to provide substantial proof he was eligible.

I've got a problem with that, but it's not at the top of my list.

Obama would not be testifying against himself. There isn't a crime for running for president and not being qualified. The lying about being qualified is a crime, called fraud. Producing his birth certificate would be establishing his qualifications for the job. It is no different than producing a diploma from a college to obtain a job as a professor. If the applicant produces a counterfeit or fraudulent document then there is a problem. If he claims the 5th then it can reasonably be presumed that he does not meet the minimum qualifications for the job.

The birth certificate I saw online from Hawaii, looks counterfeit. There were several indicators of this. I would not trust it if it had been given to me at work. Then again, the indicators could be a result of the scanning process to get it in the computer.

Several states have started passing laws to require the presentation of a birth certificate or other document proving "natural born" status or the candidate would not be able to be listed on the ballot in their state. I think they are good laws, and encourage all of you to contact your state representative (not you federal reps) to encourage the same type of laws in your states. I think you will see several "red" states pass these laws within the next few months.

Personally I think Obama is a natural born citizen. His reluctance to end the debate by producing the document does raise enough questions to make a reasonable person stop and wonder. In my opinion there is a reasonable doubt that he isn't a natural born US citizen.