WWII an obvious observation for discussion.

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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 12:57 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by msparks
Ding, ding, ding, ding..... You win a prize.

Then an now there was corruption, but now it's at least 100x worse.
Super FX4

I didn't realize the percentage was so low. I've always pictured it as being a united front.
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 01:29 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Tumba
Super FX4

I didn't realize the percentage was so low. I've always pictured it as being a united front.
yeah, that why whenever you hear someone say, "I am a 3%'er " then you know they are ready for a throw down...

My grandfather crossed the river with washington the night before the attack on Christmas, my current grandfather has all the records with him.
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 05:01 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Real
Witton, I've got news for you. Most Americans still believe there isn't anything our country can't overcome and we have a leader who knows this more than anyone and he isn't afraid to let others know how much faith he has in our country.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Pre...f_country.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ..._index_history

Can you show us how you've come to the conclusion that most Americans believe that there isn't anything that we can't overcome and believe in our president?


Originally Posted by Real
If you've lost the faith in our country then it's time to find a better place to live. I, for one, will continue to support the country I love. You are on the path to becoming a bitter old man and yet you are still too young to have real wisdom.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Just so you know, I haven't lost faith in our country. If I did, I wouldn't be trying to preserve it.

You support the country? Do you support the constitution? Do you believe in the principals that it was founded upon?

I'm too young to have real wisdom? At what age am I eligable?

I'm ok with being a bitter old ma as long as it's in a country who's people are free from government control.

Do you practice what you preach?


Originally Posted by Real
Yes, like the McCarthy Era communist scare?
Well, I guess that was people calling it the way they saw it. They took it too far, but there were communists, marxsits and socialists in our country at that time. There are now, and some of them are advising our president.

Yes, there is something similar happening in our country. Today, tea party people, people who dissagree with where the country is being lead, and who express dissent, are being painted as domestic terrorists, even though there isn't a bit of proof to back that claim. The main stream media says, and people parrot, that these people are being incited by right wing hate mongers. They make these claims with zero proof.





Originally Posted by Real
You are just plain wrong about that. Even the mainstream media and our Presidential and Congressional leaders openly refer to radical Islamic terrorists as "radical Islamic terrorists". There is nothing in our country that prevents calling a spade a spade. But of course it would not make sense to lump all Islamics into the terror group anymore than it would be to lump all Christians in with domestic terrorist Timothy McVeigh just because the Bible has passages that could misinterpreted to support violence (an eye for an eye, etc. etc. etc.). Why do you believe it is somehow politically incorrect to refer to "radical Islamic terrorists"? I think you have been reading the extreme right-wing propoganda complainers and whiners.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...032402818.html
http://www.globalpolitician.com/25560-war-on-terror
http://www.cultureandmediainstitute....111085058.aspx
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...5/ai_n9113667/

Perhaps with your wisdom and experiance, you could fill us in on how you've come to the above conclusion?


Originally Posted by Real
I've been a proud American who believes in innovation and the industriousness of my fellow countrymen for my entire life. Who are you to be a naysayer and claim we are shameful and lazy? That is not how I define my country. I can tell you are a much younger American than myself and have not seen as much as I have. But if you don't like it here you should definitely renounce your citizenship and find a better place to live.
In response to your first sentence, where was your TV made? How about approx. 90% of the items in your home? I'll bet you're a "proud American" who believes in low prices for consumor goods, like a majority of the people in this country.

When did I claim that anyone was shameful and/or lazy?

I am a much younger American than you are. Thoes nine years that you have on me allow you to have SO much wisdom, while I have none. I'm not sure what age has to do with how much someone has seen. There are twenty year olds in Iraq and Afganistan who have seen more than most people will see in their entire life. But, I really dont' know what you've seen. You don't know what I've seen either, but I'll take your word that you've seen more than I have.

All of the corruption that our government has, and continues to engage in anchors me to this country more and more each day. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to continue to work with others to hold our representatives accountable.

Originally Posted by Real
I'm going to continue to work to better my country and move forward from the greed and deregulation of the last decade that left our economy and reputation in shambles. You shouldn't let a few greedy bastards define your country for you. For the most part Americans are hard-working and fair and civic minded people and this has not changed. Don't let yourself fall into the bitter old man trap.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
It seems to me, based on what you've said, moving forward from greed and deregulation to you means shifting the greed from corporations to government and over regulating every aspect of our lives. I guess we're working for completely different things.

My humble, honorable grandfather, and the millions of people just like him who built this country are, for me, what defines our county. I know that for the most part Americas are hard working civic minded people. I live it every day. The people in our government aren't like most Americans. They need to be held accountable. You want to give Obama a pass. You don't care that he told you one thing when he needed your vote, and does something else now that he's got all the power. That just doesn't work for me, and millions of other Americans. We need a government of public servants, not the people seeking power and influence.

You do practice what you preach, right?
 

Last edited by wittom; Dec 12, 2009 at 05:04 PM.
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 05:14 PM
  #19  
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I'll bet that was a lengthy edit, Wittom.
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 07:25 PM
  #20  
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Let me take a stab at this one. It's true that we won WW II and that we did it with what we now know to be (in some cases) inferior technology. (The Sherman vs. the Panzer tanks is a perfect example.) What many people fail to realize though is that one of the biggest things that helped us win the war was our ability to manufacture larger quantities of war materials that the competition. (German tanks were notoriously hard to manufacture in large quantities.)

So why do I bring this up? Well, because the next world war will be won for very similar reasons - but not by us. We've largely outsourced all of that icky, polluting, high paying manufacturing stuff to China. Want to guess how they'll use that against us someday soon? Remember, they are a Communist state. I for one have refused to make any more trips to China for my company on the grounds that I'm just taking away our children's future job(s).
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 07:32 PM
  #21  
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You are a very wise man. I agree 110% wish more people under stood what china and walmart are all about. You can kiss all those Stan countrys good by some time hear in 20 years or less. LOL
Originally Posted by 2stroked
Let me take a stab at this one. It's true that we won WW II and that we did it with what we now know to be (in some cases) inferior technology. (The Sherman vs. the Panzer tanks is a perfect example.) What many people fail to realize though is that one of the biggest things that helped us win the war was our ability to manufacture larger quantities of war materials that the competition. (German tanks were notoriously hard to manufacture in large quantities.)

So why do I bring this up? Well, because the next world war will be won for very similar reasons - but not by us. We've largely outsourced all of that icky, polluting, high paying manufacturing stuff to China. Want to guess how they'll use that against us someday soon? Remember, they are a Communist state. I for one have refused to make any more trips to China for my company on the grounds that I'm just taking away our children's future job(s).
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 07:32 PM
  #22  
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Let's not forget about Patton. If you've ever seen an interview by one of his troops, they always say one thing in common: Patton made us feel like we were invincible. Morale cannot be understated when it comes to warfare.

Unfortunately, our government didn't listen to Patton. He wanted to take care of Soviet Russia while we had our troops and equipment in Europe.
 

Last edited by Frank S; Dec 12, 2009 at 09:17 PM.
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 07:35 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Real
Witton, I've got news for you. Most Americans still believe there isn't anything our country can't overcome and we have a leader who knows this more than anyone and he isn't afraid to let others know how much faith he has in our country.

If you've lost the faith in our country then it's time to find a better place to live. I, for one, will continue to support the country I love. You are on the path to becoming a bitter old man and yet you are still too young to have real wisdom.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.



Yes, like the McCarthy Era communist scare?



You are just plain wrong about that. Even the mainstream media and our Presidential and Congressional leaders openly refer to radical Islamic terrorists as "radical Islamic terrorists". There is nothing in our country that prevents calling a spade a spade. But of course it would not make sense to lump all Islamics into the terror group anymore than it would be to lump all Christians in with domestic terrorist Timothy McVeigh just because the Bible has passages that could misinterpreted to support violence (an eye for an eye, etc. etc. etc.). Why do you believe it is somehow politically incorrect to refer to "radical Islamic terrorists"? I think you have been reading the extreme right-wing propoganda complainers and whiners.





I've been a proud American who believes in innovation and the industriousness of my fellow countrymen for my entire life. Who are you to be a naysayer and claim we are shameful and lazy? That is not how I define my country. I can tell you are a much younger American than myself and have not seen as much as I have. But if you don't like it here you should definitely renounce your citizenship and find a better place to live.

I'm going to continue to work to better my country and move forward from the greed and deregulation of the last decade that left our economy and reputation in shambles. You shouldn't let a few greedy bastards define your country for you. For the most part Americans are hard-working and fair and civic minded people and this has not changed. Don't let yourself fall into the bitter old man trap.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Read "Blacklisted By History". McCarthy's (the FBI's) information is confirmed by the Soviet Venona records, released in the mid 1990's.
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 07:44 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Real

I'm going to continue to work to better my country and move forward from the greed and deregulation of the last decade that left our economy and reputation in shambles. You shouldn't let a few greedy bastards define your country for you. For the most part Americans are hard-working and fair and civic minded people and this has not changed. Don't let yourself fall into the bitter old man trap.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Your joking right?
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 07:55 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by jmeyerholtz
I believe the biggest problem we have now is the media, During WWII all the coverage about the war was good. They had every American wanting to win the war. Since Vietnam there has been media coverage giving every person a view of what is actually happening. There are something's people just shouldn't know about war.
Back then, it was called censorship. The picture of the first dead American combat victim wasn't shown to the folks back home until late 1943. During the latter part of 1944, when Americans thought the war was won, the military wanted the public to see the troubles and the deaths, so that the people back home would keep working. As for your statement about "something's (sic) people just shouldn't know about war", think about Robert E. Lee's quote, "It is good that war is so horrible, or we might grow to like it."

TSC
 

Last edited by referee54; Dec 12, 2009 at 07:58 PM.
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 08:02 PM
  #26  
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One aspect of the war that we did differently than the Germans: We built new planes and such. The Germans FW-190 and the ME-109 each had about seven or eight different versions---we just scrapped most of the outdted planes and designed and built new ones, such as the P-47 and the P-51. The Germans did have us on rockets---the V-1 and the V-2, but we were able to knock out their launching pads, and they came too late in the war--the V-1 and V-2 could actually be called some of the first terrorist weapons. The ME-262 should have been used a fighter, but Hitler insisted taht it be used as a tank-buster.
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 08:10 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Frank S
Let's not forget about Patton. If you've ever seen an interview by one of his troops, they always say one thing in common: Patton made us feel like we were invincible. Moral cannot be understated when it comes to warfare.

Unfortunately, our government didn't listen to Patton. He wanted to take care of Soviet Russia while we had our troops and equipment in Europe.
You may need to think a different agle on what happened. We did need to rush in to get to the technology first. But it was a formadable enemy that kept us strong. If we had beaten them then, we would have been without a formidable enemy. Unless it was China. But to remain strong a nation has to have an enemy. History has proven that time and time again for 6000 years.
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 08:16 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by referee54
One aspect of the war that we did differently than the Germans: We built new planes and such. The Germans FW-190 and the ME-109 each had about seven or eight different versions---we just scrapped most of the outdted planes and designed and built new ones, such as the P-47 and the P-51. The Germans did have us on rockets---the V-1 and the V-2, but we were able to knock out their launching pads, and they came too late in the war--the V-1 and V-2 could actually be called some of the first terrorist weapons. The ME-262 should have been used a fighter, but Hitler insisted taht it be used as a tank-buster.
It also flew so fast , even as a fighter it passed over it's targets so fast it ,didn't have enough time to take aim.
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 08:24 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Tumba
It also flew so fast , even as a fighter it passed over it's targets so fast it ,didn't have enough time to take aim.
The V-1 "Buzz Bomb" could be knocked off course by the British pilots, they would fly next to it and knock the wing of the V-1 with their wing and tip it over; the gyro in it would break and the thing would crash.
 
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Old Dec 12, 2009 | 08:38 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by referee54
The V-1 "Buzz Bomb" could be knocked off course by the British pilots, they would fly next to it and knock the wing of the V-1 with their wing and tip it over; the gyro in it would break and the thing would crash.
I've enver read that before. But I did study worldwar II Airplanes. It's amazing how they used such simply technology then. To this day I still haven' seen a Nortan bombsite.
 
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