Tampa, I don't believe that argument for a second. If that were the case, then why aren't Goodyears or Michelins failing like Firestones, or are you telling us that ONLY owners of Firerstone tires don't check their air pressures regularly???

The fact is the Firestone factories had problems with quality control probably because of cost cutting measures (greed and/or negligence). Hell, not only would I never put Firestones on any vehicle I own (in fact, I have never had a Firestone tire in my whole life), I would never even take my vechicles to a Firestone repair shop. They are terrible and take advantage of their customers and do lousy repair work.

You know, I've seen tires blow out because of being underinflated. They blow out the sidewalls. You usually see a bubble/bulge before it blows. The reason that happens is because of the increased flexing of the sidewalls in an underinflated tire which generates heat. Before they blow, you can feel a thumping or the steering wheel starts to shimmy if it's a front tire.

The Firestones, on the other hand, lose their belts like it was a banana peel. As Seacrow said, they crack right around the whole tire. Then they blow without warning.

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited 05-29-2001).]

 

Yes, and the Michelin X Radial LT that replaced the Firestones were flawless for nearly 10,000 miles before we traded the Explorer. The night of the first recall, I went to the garage and looked at the tires. I was shocked to see that crack. I kept the pressure up but never noticed the crack until I knew where to look. I refused to let my wife drive it until it was dealt with.

In Firestones defense, they were very efficient with our refund check on new tires and I had FR360s on my 94 Ranger that I got 45,000 trouble free miles out of. The traction sucked and they rode like crap but they wore evenly, lasted well and never cracked!

If Ford sold 1,000,000 Explorers with these tires then firestone made at least 5,000,000 tires for them. They commited a mass production blunder plain and simple. That is a lot of tires to produce in a few years. That does not include the ATX.

Also, as Dennis pointed out, only two Good Year tread seperations were documented in the same model years with the same number of Good Year tires within those model years.

 

Any tire that the air pressure is low in is going to fail. I have seen a lot of tire failures. Low tire pressure is not the fault of the tire manufactures. It happens when not maintaining the tire pressure. All I am saying is that if you have one vehicle with one tire, your going to have failures. Ford and Firestone are the scape goats. Its the end user not maintaining there vehicles air pressures on there tires. My point is that there you have one of the best selling vehicles and almost exclusively uses only one tire. heck look at the Ford F-150 (best selling vehicle in the world) and look at all the diffrent tires on this truck, ie Goodyear, BF Goodrich, Firestone, General, the list goes on. If Ford had used just one tire like they used wilderness AT on the Explorer then it would not be F-150 and its one tire that would be in this mess

 

T-H, you have completely missed my point. If what you say is true about vehicle owners not maintaining their air pressure properly, then you would see the same failures on vehicles equipped with tires from different manufacturers too.

The point is, Firestones are not as tolerant of a low pressure condition than Goodyears, BFGs, Michelins and others.

Then you have to explain why people like Seacrow, who obviously maintains his vehicles properly and has stated that he kept his tire pressure up, also experienced this tread separation syndrome on his Firestones.

Again, if your argument were correct, then we would be seeing the same failures on every vehicle on the road, but we don't.

Here's my guess as to what happened in the case of Explorers and Firestones. Ford spec'd an application and Firestone said they had the product and could deliver it in the quantities Ford needed at a lower price than any of the other competitors.

Firestone cranked up production, knowing what the application and other requirements were. Requirements such as air pressure, vehicle weight, traction, etc. The Explorer became a hot item and Firestone was caught with their pants down and had to push their production line beyond it's designed capacity. They took shortcuts and passed tires that never should have been released and used defective/old components.

The tires started to fail, but since it was a Firestone tire, all the data went to Firestone where they hid the fact that this was happening. They didn't even notify Ford. They kept the data secret.

Finally, somebody puts two and two together and realizes that Firestone tires are blowing out at an alarming rate. Only then, does Firestone come clean and only then does Ford find out about high incidence of blow outs.

I cannot see how Ford can be held responsible. Firestone knew what the application and requirements were. Ford does not design tires, they just tell the tire manufacturers what they are going to be used for.

Tell me how Ford is responsible for the design and manufacture of the tire. I just don't see your logic.

I am ignoring your argument about using only one tire on the Explorers because if your logic were true, then you need to apply that to every single item on every single vehicle. If I follow you correctly, you're saying that unless every component of a vehicle is made by 5 different manufacturers, said vehicle will be unsafe. I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. The only point I will give you is that if Ford had used tires from Goodyear, BFG, Michelin, and others along with Firestones, their problem would not be as big. On the other hand, we may never have known about the Firestone problems in the first place because the incidents would not have sent up red flags so soon. Then you have to wonder about all those people on Firestones who would never have known about the defects and how many more of them would be dead today. Chances are, Seacrow and his wife would be dead right now if it weren't for the fact that Ford used these tires almost exclusively on the Explorer. (I guess I didn't do too good a job of ignoring, huh?)

Again, the fault lies with Firestone for producing a defective tire and hiding the failures from everybody including their biggest customer, Ford.



[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited 05-29-2001).]

 

BTW, Ford could have made Firestone replace all the tires themselves. Instead, Ford took the bull by the horns and made a committment to their customers and replaced the tires themselves when it became clear that Firestone was dragging their a$$es. Besides, Ford also knew that owners of their products would not want defective Firestone tires replaced with Firestone tires. It's like buying 5 crappy Chevies and buying 5 more because you didn't like the first 5.

How can you fault Ford for that? If I were you, I'd be proud of how Ford is dealing with this problem. I know I'm proud of Ford and I'm just a customer!

 

Oh man. Sorry for being so verbose, but sometimes, when I get going...

I've always been this way. It's just how my mind works things out. Hope you guys don't mind too much.

 

Tampa,

To simplify things, there were approx. the same amount of Explorers produced with Good-Year and Firestone tires in the 95-97 model year. There are two documented tread seperations on the Good-Year tires and 1115 on the Firestone tires. Certainly the folks with GY's did not watch their tire pressures that much more closely than the Firestone recipients. Perhaps, the GYs handled lack of maintenance better. Fine. I witnessed this cracking problem first hand. Also, Firestone told me it was too hot to inspect my tires last summer and told me where to look for the plant codes. I could've kicked the managers a$$ for that. He would not even look at the cracks. Also, a very popular Tampa Bay area pediatric heart surgeon was killed in an Explorer after a Firestone tread seperation. He saved my buddies son's life at age 2. I doubt he failed to maintain trie pressure after seeing what he had seen.

 

Now don't jump all over me, but I bought a 91 Explorer, the first year they came out. It was built Nov. 15, 90. It came with Firestone tires which I hate, having had them on my 88 Bronco and 84 F-150 SC. On both previous trucks I had to replace them before 20,000 miles due to wear. On the Explorer I ran them for 70,000 miles without a problem and could have passed Ma. Inspection with them again. Maybe because it was such an early buy on a first model year vehicle that I got lucky with the tires. People with early Explorers are amazed with the good fortune i've had with it since it's got over 232,000 miles on it now and has, untill two months ago, been driven 100 miles a day @ 85 mph back and forth to work. Oil change (no matter what weight) every 3000 miles is all it takes. P.S. Now it's driven buy a little old lady 10 miles a day round trip to work, Mine.

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[This message has been edited by ScrewKing (edited 05-29-2001).]

 

I just have to comment on Firestone tires. My 89 Ranger had the stock stones on it when I bought it. Within a year 3 of 4 had gotten flats. It may just be luck, but in the 8 years since, I've had 7 sets of (non-Firestone)tires on 3 vehicles with no flats. I might buy the SZ-50's for the Mustang, but last the last set was Bridgestone's. Bridgestone\Firestone is like Daimler\Chrysler IMO. One's good\one's crap.

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1994 SVT Mustang Cobra. #1032 of 6009. Black coupe with black leather int., 3.73 rear, Bassani Exhaust, Aluminum D/S, Bridgestone RE-71 255-45-ZR17

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Reality Check:
Do you guys really think just because the firestones are removed from fords explorers they will quit flipping over? I doubt it.

 

I think there are certainly going to be less roll-overs. I am not an expert, but when a tire's tread peals off at highway speed, it just seems like there is going to be an adverse reaction.

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'99 F-150 XLT SC 4x4 5.4L Auto 3.55LS Tow pkg, skid plates, keyless entry, UWS tool box, Superchip, Gibson pipes w/ Flowmaster 40 series muffler, K&N filter, BFG 265/75/16 All-Terrain TA/KO



[This message has been edited by NSS (edited 05-30-2001).]

 

the flipping is caused by inexperienced drivers.(lack of experience not years) they think they do not need to heed the warnings of manufacturers about the handling of trucks and suv's. i mean really if some plowboy from the farm can drive a truck so can a sophisticated yuppie right, how hard can it be.
i had the luck of being hit by one who luckily showed her ignorance by telling the police " i've never driven a truck before, i guess they really do handle differently". yep it was a brand new 4x4. little rain, little hill, and a little hurry. light goes yellow brakes lock and voilla we're sliding down the hill into the side of my truck. at least i had the pleasure of seeing her face as she slid towards me, it was the old "man am i stupid look".
don't get me wrong, i think everyone should drive whatever vehicle they want, but, don't be so arrogant that you think driving a 4x4 is the same as driving a buick. learn the vehicle and how it handles. take it offroad not to abuse it but to get used to it. lock the brakes up on wet parking lots that are empty whatever, but don't flip the thing over and then say it was someone elses fault.
i would love to see the statistic of how many of those who flipped with the explorer, had ever owned a truck before. one news station did a study on the explorer that had the tire go flat with a machine, so it could be reinflated. the guy driving did everything he could but couldn't get it to flip.

 

I agree with you completely wildchild. I think SUV owners should have to take a driving test that shows they can drive the vehicle first. Like your example, a lot of people cannot handle their vehicles, so imagine how they are going to react when a tire is taken out from under them instantly. Just go to the grocery store and look at the way the SUV's are parked, its hilarious.

 

Wildchild, can't put the total blame on driver inexeperience specifically with SUVs. I'm guessing that most of those involved in accidents after their tire blew really didn't know what to do when a tire blows out.

I will agree, however, that many of the SUV drivers have no idea that an SUV can't handle and stop like a regular car.



[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited 05-30-2001).]

 

If I may.

I want to thank everyone for there opinion.

Mine still stays the same. I deep down beleave that the tire issue is all having to do with the number of explorers sold and the number of AT installed on them. yes some goodyears were used on limited's and eddie bouer's but not nearly as many as the Firestone AT. I have seen people get many many miles out of Firestone AT. I also have seen a lot of other tire failures.

The one thing that seams to be constant is that when a Firestone tire fails because of low tire pressure it is the tread that loosens from the tire. and I have seen other tire failures from low tire pressure. Mostly what happens is the sidewalls start flexing too much and then they start breaking down on the inside, the breakdown of the inside is cause by the heat that is created from the flexing of the sidewalls. if a owner notices a bulge in the sidewall and has it replaced, what we find is a real fine powder inside the tire, if the tire blows then the powder is blown out of the tire. what is that black powder, its the rubber that brokedown on the inside of the tire. what happens when it does blow is all the air is released from the tire.

in theary if a tires tread seperated first you would have something come off the tire and hit the body of the vehicle and then the driver would get out of the vehicle and check out the body, the tires, under the hood. but what really happens is the driver continues driving and with no tread, rideing on the steel belt and then the tire blows.

You know what. I think I like the little warning of the tread seperateing first