I think Dave is getting a little fragged on his topic, so I would like to add my opinions/experiences.

I was a street cop in 1961/1962, when the night stick ruled. And if that didn't get your attention, you used your 8 cell taped up flashlight. It was an ugly, rough time with not much respect for citizens rights.
For those of you with veteran status, I was a cop in San Diego, and spent much of my two years on a walking beat on Imperial Avenue. 2 miles of bars, more bars and certain "service hotels". No radio, the police call boxes rarely worked and you were totally on your own.

Anyway, that has little to do with my reason for posting. Dave offered to give information on the law as it is written, not to interpret or comment on the good or bad of individual laws or statutes. There are other forums for that, not to be found on a vehicle enthusiast board I think.

On the other hand, Police officers do "interpret" the law every second of every day in the sense that they try to make a reasonable decision as to whether a given law is being violated to the extent that a ticket or arrest is warrented. A very hard choice sometimes, not choice at all sometimes. I agree with Dave that for non-obvious nasty boy cases, attitude is everything mixed in a little with the circumstances. I too wrote few tickets when I had a car patrol, but i was death on drunken drivers. I also had a thing for catching car thieves and have a yellowed manila folder full of citations for catching those guys, mainly near the border with Mexico.

Main point is, let Dave help with the technical stuff and leave him alone on the interpretation stuff.

Thanks for listening.

Bill

------------------
Bill Murray
99 Lightning #247
PSP Chip & Filter
Spare Superchip
Bassani full system TBI
Oxford White w/normal options.
98 Lincoln Continental Stock
56 F100 Big Window 272 w/TBird intake headers Fordomatic
56 F100 small window w/built 300" I6
69 Belair 390/427/400 Built
69 C10 Panel Stock
Soon: 92 Town Car
Tamiya 1/10 Lightning
Lightning & Thunder Rag Doll Cats.
E-mail MOSTOYSINC@AOL.com
htuken@BellSouth.net
HobbyTown1@WebTV.net
Kennesaw (Atlanta) Ga.

 

Bill, do you still own all those trucks in your sig?

 

54RegCab:

Yes I do, and all are for sale. The Long Bed is the most expensive, followed by the short bed and then the Panel.

Please e-mail me on AOL if you wish to discuss.

Bill

 

Bill, those night sticks in '62 just didn't have the umph of the batons used today. Oh sure, it could handle a sailor but, you really needed the flashlight for those marines.
I work with a guy who was a Norfolk cop in the sixties, same route, different Fleet. He was K-9 Corp. He still gets a gleam in his eye when he talks about working the crowds with the dog.

 

Raoul:

You are correct, in that it was more brute force than finesse in those days.

Regarding Marines, as a former Marine, I tended to be a bit more lenient towards the Gyrenes if they gave me half a chance. If not, I usually came home with ripped up uniform and a heck of a lot of bruises and bumps. But, they always ended up in jail or at the shore patrol.

I know your comment about your friend is well intentioned, but I did not enjoy either the atmosphere nor the attitude of the then existing Chief and his Captains Lieutenants and so on. That's why I left. In a sense, I foresaw the Watts riots, the Detroit riots and so on several years before they happened.

On the other hand, I truly enjoyed helping folks in trouble and very much enjoyed nailing real bad people and, as stated, drunks who insisted on driving. Not a crusade at all, I have done some minor "drunk driving" myself in a clinical sense. I am talking about the jerks that drive on the wrong side of the road or the wrong way on a freeway and worse.


But, again, I was just trying to give Dave some moral support and to get people to cut him some slack on interpretation.

By the way, I really enjoy your posts and your classic sense of humor. Hope you keep it up.

Bill

 

I still use my Maglite as a A$$-beater, if need be!

 

Any cop who is hard on drunk drivers is fine by me. One nearly killed me and my mom back in 1980 (before California's harsh anti-drunk laws were on the books). He was a 3+ time offender, and probably still drives drunk if he hasn't killed his sorry *** yet. Being sober and having quick reflexes saved my life that night, but didn't save my dad's one week old new car, which wasn't totalled (barely) but never drove the same again after the major repairs.

 

I sure don't want to offend anyone, and I've met Dave and think he's okay, but the law enforcement officers here in Oklahoma are the scum of the Earth. They don't pay these guys anything and they don't do adequate psychological testing, so what kind of officers do they think they're getting? It's terrible. This goes for Oklahoma City and Tulsa, too, not just the small towns. The state troopers here are professional and I respect them, but I would never lift a finger or lend a hand to assist a police officer or sheriff's deputy in Oklahoma (I said OKLAHOMA). The line between these guys and what's in our state corrections system is very blurred, same goes for the feds I've dealt with, very negative experiences. No, I'm not an ex-con or member of the ACLU, but these buttholes are like *****. Now by contrast, when I was in California in the Navy for 5 years, all of the CHPs, police officers, or sheriff's deputies I came into contact with were all very professional, that includes the sh**heads. And I think anywhere a department offers good pay and benefits and uses rigorous psychological screening, so all of the sadists and psychos are weeded out, will have an overall good group of officers. Not here, though. Again, I'm not directing any comments so as to blanket ALL law enforcement, just what's in Oklahoma. It's possible some of them are okay, too, but the @$$holes sure make themselves known.

 

Fordman:

I have no experience in OK, but I am sure that technically you have a point. Poor pay and poor leadership can certainly result in the situation you describe. We have a similar situation here in GA as regards teachers. We now have good leadership, but the pay is awful, and you usually get what you pay for.

I should say that "post Watts", most California departments underwent major reorganizations and are probably as professional as any government organization can be. This probably took place in many states.

A further comment on drunk drivers, and this is probably why most officers are hard on drug involved nasties. I saw, and officers today see, the results of these offenses.
It didn't take many radio calls (when I was driving a cage) on DUI accidents to develop an attitude against that particular type of individual. Unless you see it up close day after day, you can really not understand the helplessness and almost rage you feel as an officer when you are pulling people out of cars who had done nothing wrong and see the DUI type lounging against his vehicle, many times unhurt.

Drugs were not a problem where I was, when I was there, but I know it wrecks families, careers and so on and is a very violent form of crime. I am sure most officers develop an attitude in that area as well.

Sorry for the philosophy, but maybe it helps to understand the situation a little bit.
Bill

 

Ford Man

What kind of Feds have you delt with?
Just curious.

 

U.S. Marshal Service, FBI, ATF, FDA. Now the FBI and ATF agents were very professional in every way, very helpful, a real credit to their departments. The FDA agents (yes, I said FDA) and U.S. Marshal Service personnel I didn't think too much of, now I know you're a fed of an undisclosed department, TexasKid1, so let me say first off my contact and experience with these guys has been minimal. I don't want to judge ALL federal law enforcement personnel based on the actions of 2 or 3 INDIVIDUALS. I'd like to think they were just isolated incidents, but it sure colors your perception of other folks who carry badges and work in the same departments.

[This message has been edited by Ford man (edited 02-08-2000).]

 

"Of the former persuasion"...Did ya' keep any of your dresses from your "former self" Bill? Raoul may have some use for them.

------------------
Red 99.5 Lightning,
#0975,
Born 5/6/99...Adopted 5/27/99
Chipped w/SuperChip Flipchip chip,
PSP Filter(track untested),
Water Wetter,
Mobil 1,
Foglamp Covers,
13.573@101.08




[This message has been edited by 4D THNDR (edited 02-08-2000).]

 

It takes a whole lot to offend me,,lol. Actually I was just curious, Being a little new to the job, About to start my third year, have not really met anyone bad, or maybe I'm the *******?? and just don't see it, Just kidding. I have not really run into anyone who was an *** yet. I have worked with DEA, ATF and U.S. Marshal's so far all of them were profesional in our dealings

 

4D Thunder:

Ahh GEEZ, I thought we were in the "Don't ask, Don't tell" generation. Anyway, nice jab.

Seriously, I was going to say "A long time ago" but that was too Walt Disney. Then I thought about "many years ago", but that was too much The Waltons. Then there was "way back when" but that was too Southern. So, "of the former persuasion" was something I read somewhere and just used it.

BTW, don't rile Raoul up too much. I hear he can get pretty mean.

Bill

 

TexasKid1-
In all fairness, I've only had dealings with one FDA investigator and 3 or 4 U.S. Marshal's Service personnel and I really don't have any use for the ones I've met. That's probably too limited an experience to try and judge all of them; like I said, it's probably the INDIVIDUALS, not the department. Now, I've dealt with the ATF on firearms licensing involving some of my gun dealing (NO! I'm not a right wing, dig a hole in the ground, fanatic! I was getting licensed and wanted to play according to Hoyle) and both the Dallas and OKC offices have been more than fair to me in our dealings. They've been very professional and I've been quite impressed with their agency as a whole. I've had occasional contact with the FBI office here (NO! I'm not an informant!) and they've been all around good fellows.

Bill-
Since you were a cop in the pre-Miranda days in Southern California, I've got a few questions:

We read and hear about how William Parker ran the LAPD, how much was the SDPD like them?

How much of TV/movie portrayal of SoCal law enforcement of that era is accurate?
(LA Confidential, Mulholland Falls)