As time ticks by for the failing auto companies it seems like Bush may let the car companies go bankrupt rather than bailing them out. The majority of Americans do not want an auto bailout. Couple that with the UAW's decision not to cut UAW pay or benefits to non union auto plant levels and it could mean the end of the UAW. This could potentially make it much easier for the Big 3 to become profitable, viable companies again in the future.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081218/...meltdown_autos

 

Let the "small three" fall dead. They need to learn some lessons for their bad business decesions and poor product perception.

I have a feeling Bush will put off making any moves unless he has to, and dump the problem in Obama's lap. That is if GM can last until the end of January. I bet they can if they want to. GM really used scare and fear tatics to try and get the federal aid/ loan/ bailout they wanted. Just like Bush did to win re-election

Bush vs. Nixon as the worst president ever is almost too close to call. IMO Bush wins. I belive most if not all of Bush's policys will be on the wrong side of history. But time will tell.

This is a fairly conservative American Truck Form so I imagine not many will agree.

Unions are dying slowly, with them will go good paying jobs for American workers. Unions are not perfect but they are better than not having any organized labor groups at all. Are you going to be able to stand up to a multi-national corporation for your pay, job, benefits as one single employee? I didn't think so.

 

Easy there... if you don't mention Jimmy Carter in the worst Presidents category then you lose credibility. History will be a lot kinder to Bush than his opponents during his Presidency. You have to remember the Congress and the Senate have a role to play as well. Bush isn't a dictator; all the blame can't fall in his lap.

 

It's starting to look like Obama vs Carter. I wonder how much he'll have to screw up in the next four years for it to be obvious to his voters that they made a HUGE mistake.

This current genius already has scandals going and he's not even offical yet.

I wonder if anything will ever come from the pay to play scandal?

Regarding the Auto Bailout. I bet this would have never been brought up if they never bailed out the banks. I doubt it. Nice October surprise though.

 

One concern ofmine is for the retirees...while I do notlike the idea of a bailout, if the pension funds are cut due to bankruptcy, the retirees could stand to lose 1/3 to 1/2 of their pension. I saw this first hand when my father-in-law lost almost half of his pension when JL Steel folded.

When somebody works 40 years and is expecting (and is promised) a pension, should they not receive what they have worked for---and contributed toward? I admit that I want the three carmakers to seriously consider how they do business, but not at the risk of those who have retired and count on the very pension that they looked forward to.

BTW---I remember reading about all of the people who, just a few months ago, said that it was their fault for not having all of their money in an IRA---that people should take charge of their own retirement and not count on these unions; and now, many people have lost tens of thousands of dollars in their won IRA's, as well. AGain, has the worm turned?

TSC

 

Unfortunately, there are a lot of UAW folks that are going to get hurt over this and I don't see anyway out for them. These same folks won't know what to do in a private sector job where your performance is critical to your keeping your job. But it goes far deeper. My girls aunt just moved back home to Lansing Mi. She has a brain tumor and it is small and not life threatening yet. To get an exam for her here in Texas costs her $400.00. In Detroit were she has to go, it costs her $1200.00 for the same exam because of the auto makers huge benefits packages. These same "hospitals" and "doctors" will also have to get real once the UAW is gone. I can only see bankruptcy as the way out for the auto makers. They would get to clean the slate and start over with products that sell, automate their lines like the foreign companies, get out from under so much expensive labor, and pick and chose their employees. And yes, unfortunately, I have family in the UAW and their attitude towards their employer sucks. They actually think this is a ploy by the auto makers to destroy the union- the auto makers have tons of money.

 

Contradict yourself much? - Og

 

Huh, I wonder if he'll let them go under. Based on what I read earlier late last week, after it was shot down by Congress, Bush made it sound like it wouldn't be too much of an issue to free up some TARP funds, and do it quickly. I think he may have finally done the math and realized that UAW + Big 3 = FAIL...

Here's the biggest thing I think most people are missing out of this whole disaster. If Cerberus, who owns Chrysler and also has a vested interest in GM won't do anything, I don't know how much more of a light bulb everyone else needs to realize that this is a no win situation without DRASTIC restructuring... Cerberus bought Chrysler for roughly 7.4 billion I believe, and when Chrysler went to Washington with their tin cup, they said they needed at least 7 billion. Sounds like Cerberus wants to try and break even, then dump Chrysler. So even if the bailout gets approved, it's not going to matter anyway, as Chrysler is doomed regardless.

Nothing against the UAW workers themselves, I have some close friends that work at all 3 US auto manufacturers, these guys have families and homes like the rest of us, but the UAW itself has completely infected the Big 3 past any point of redemption. They need to agree to substancial pay and benefit cuts and be thankful those who are left still have jobs, otherwise if they continue to be stubborn about the whole thing and remain dillusional that they can hold out until 2011 until their contracts come up again, well then we see how well that has worked out so far.

Even the radio stations are flooded with ex UAW employees and retirees out here stating that the UAW has served it purpose, but it's time has come. Plus, another good point someone mentioned, aren't there programs and things established for UAW workers to continue their education through tuition reimbursements and different trades? I thought there were. If so, why haven't the majority of these guys taken advantage of that?

 

No, not really.

The man isn't even President yet and there is already a major scandal going on. That's a bad way to start.

 

Don't you mean Obama vs Clinton? The right will invent things to throw at him the entire time he is in office.

There are still idiots that think Clinton was involved in Whitewater and Vince's death, or at least a lot of people that don't believe it, but say it just the same for the smear factor.

Funny, after eight years of a strong Republican administration, six of it with a carte blanche, some people still don't get it.

 

I don't think there's a question as to the Clinton's involvement in the Whitewater scandal... the murders are a stretch.

 

'Nuff said. - Og

 

If they bail out the auto makers then I want them to reto-fit all this "bail-out" stuff to all the companies that failed in the past. I'd like my $40,000 of Enron stock back, and I bet my dad wouldn't mind getting his $100,000 pension from United Airlines he worked 33 1/2 years for.

I doubt Bush signs this. Everyone knows its bad news, even the libs in congress, they want Bush to sign it so bad because they don't want it to make their golden boy look bad if he has to sign it when he gets in.

 

Not convicted of anything, not even close. Perhaps you feel you know better than our court systems and the millions of dollars spent trying to convict him of something.

 

Didn't the court systems also deal with OJ and Michael Jackson???

They're not always accurate