Do you wear your seatbelt?
#76
12-21-1999, 04:21 PM
#77
12-21-1999, 09:57 PM
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Raoul et al: This is the most conviction on one subject I have ever seen you have since I joined the board. Excellent! Seatbelts and helmets are personal protection devices designed to save your life, period. Does the requirement to wear them need to be thrust on us under the banner of "because it will save your life"? If we were to become a society so preoccupied with saving each other, we would be required by law to wear condoms. And not own a firearm. And not to drink alcohol. Personally, I would not go 1 foot on the street without my seat belt. I feel the same way about a helmet when motorcycling, and I am a backer of NO helmet laws. I wear one because after 28 years of street biking, I too have seen some bad stuff go down, but I believe in freedom of choice too. It is important for the health of America to have choices, not laws. Wheeee, I feels better after a good shake too.......j.b.
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99 SC Sport, Silver color everywhere, 4.2 auto,3.55 rear gear, split bench, stock AM/FM @ 2 cheesy speakers w/Ford brand bedliner. Keep'n stock from the factory because we love it for what it is...One fine ride!
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99 SC Sport, Silver color everywhere, 4.2 auto,3.55 rear gear, split bench, stock AM/FM @ 2 cheesy speakers w/Ford brand bedliner. Keep'n stock from the factory because we love it for what it is...One fine ride!
#78
12-21-1999, 10:13 PM
I wouldn't try to convince anyone to do anything they don't want to do. wildchild is legit in his argument but, Andthensometoo was just 'uncomfortable' and I would hope that would be correctable. If indeed Ford is not making seatbelts user friendly for women and 'fat men' then it should at least be addressed.
Also I went out in the truck tonight 'beltless' for the first time. Lord, I was all over the place. Maybe it was the leather seats but, I had to work to stay behind the wheel. It was definetly two fisted rather than two finger driving.
Also I went out in the truck tonight 'beltless' for the first time. Lord, I was all over the place. Maybe it was the leather seats but, I had to work to stay behind the wheel. It was definetly two fisted rather than two finger driving.
#79
12-21-1999, 10:20 PM
Raoul,
Not only have your previous posts caused three bench clearing brawls, two knifings and a drive-by, they made me go back to church.
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Dunbarton "The Middle Aged Kid" '99 XLT SC SB 4x2 4.6 auto 3.55 ls The occasional Z-71 Eater! Wedgewood & Denim, SuperChipped, Airaid FIPK, Rhino Liner, Mobil 1. Man, I got it all! (New Jersey)
Not only have your previous posts caused three bench clearing brawls, two knifings and a drive-by, they made me go back to church.
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Dunbarton "The Middle Aged Kid" '99 XLT SC SB 4x2 4.6 auto 3.55 ls The occasional Z-71 Eater! Wedgewood & Denim, SuperChipped, Airaid FIPK, Rhino Liner, Mobil 1. Man, I got it all! (New Jersey)
#80
12-21-1999, 10:26 PM
j.b. I just re-read your post and I see you have accused me of having conviction.
Ouch! I read all my posts here again looking for conviction and all I could find was
"Remember, this is not a game."
Ok, my fault. One joke line too many.
But, to accuse me of being a left-wing liberal with 'conviction'. Let's just say the seatbelt is getting a little tight right now.
Ouch! I read all my posts here again looking for conviction and all I could find was
"Remember, this is not a game."
Ok, my fault. One joke line too many.
But, to accuse me of being a left-wing liberal with 'conviction'. Let's just say the seatbelt is getting a little tight right now.
#81
12-22-1999, 12:19 AM
#82
12-22-1999, 12:26 AM
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I have to agree with Andthensometoo. There is no "One size fits all" seatbelt system. Some do ride in a weird position and the newer adjustable ones are much more comfortable than the older models.
Here is another debate issue: Airbags.
The automakers where forced by Uncle Sam to put them in the vehicles to offer more safety and protection for US, the driving public. Then when the information starts to come in from the agencies that report this stuff, everyone changes their tune.
My goodness, the first ones (Generation 1) where actually hurting people. Deploying with so much force that even belted individuals where getting hurt by the bag it self.
Now the second generation (de-powered) airbags are out. People are now complaining that the bags are not deploying properly during an accident. They are also deploying when not necessary during an accident and even worse yet, the insurance companies are complaining about the $ 500.00 (plus) cost of each bag to replace. Remember you got a discount for having a vehicle with the airbags. What about now?
Hell, the Airbag is a hotter theft item in Indianapolis than car stereos and cell phones now. Thief's are selling them for more than $ 250 to chop shops. Here goes OUR insurance cost again.
My personal opinion is still out on the air bag.
Just my $ .02
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99 EB Expy
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93 T-Bird Super Coupe
Here is another debate issue: Airbags.
The automakers where forced by Uncle Sam to put them in the vehicles to offer more safety and protection for US, the driving public. Then when the information starts to come in from the agencies that report this stuff, everyone changes their tune.
My goodness, the first ones (Generation 1) where actually hurting people. Deploying with so much force that even belted individuals where getting hurt by the bag it self.
Now the second generation (de-powered) airbags are out. People are now complaining that the bags are not deploying properly during an accident. They are also deploying when not necessary during an accident and even worse yet, the insurance companies are complaining about the $ 500.00 (plus) cost of each bag to replace. Remember you got a discount for having a vehicle with the airbags. What about now?
Hell, the Airbag is a hotter theft item in Indianapolis than car stereos and cell phones now. Thief's are selling them for more than $ 250 to chop shops. Here goes OUR insurance cost again.
My personal opinion is still out on the air bag.
Just my $ .02
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99 EB Expy
94 Lightning
93 T-Bird Super Coupe
#83
12-22-1999, 01:26 AM
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Ok, just checked back here & despising my better judgement, I'm making another post.
As for saying that anyone who doesn't wear a seatbelt is a moron, is somewhat of a "moronic" statement. So you break a law, so what ! I suppose you never break the speed limit either ?
If I would have been wearing a seatbelt in my accident & had been a "Non Moronic" person, I'd be rolling away from my computer in my wheelchair wishing I still had my legs so I could walk ! Very fortunate in my case.
As for the Airbags... Let me say this... a few weeks ago, we got an accident investigation job. A young boy was in the passenger seat of a new jaguar that was involved in an accident. Not a dent in the Jag at all, but the airbag deployed. The boy lost 1/2 of his face & is no longer the "Living" joy of his parents lives.
Bottom line here... This is America, we should have a choice on alot more things than we do. If I don't wear my seatbelt, I should not get a ticket !! I do believe seatbelts are good in many cases, so are airbags, but if we don't want to wear them, or if we want to be able to turn them off, we should have that right !
Let's take the gloves off & move on to happier subjects ?
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Sean in Texas
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Next to "Be Added",.."Power Aid" & more I'm sure !
"With a Nice 2 Tone Paint Job" !!!!!
As for saying that anyone who doesn't wear a seatbelt is a moron, is somewhat of a "moronic" statement. So you break a law, so what ! I suppose you never break the speed limit either ?
If I would have been wearing a seatbelt in my accident & had been a "Non Moronic" person, I'd be rolling away from my computer in my wheelchair wishing I still had my legs so I could walk ! Very fortunate in my case.
As for the Airbags... Let me say this... a few weeks ago, we got an accident investigation job. A young boy was in the passenger seat of a new jaguar that was involved in an accident. Not a dent in the Jag at all, but the airbag deployed. The boy lost 1/2 of his face & is no longer the "Living" joy of his parents lives.
Bottom line here... This is America, we should have a choice on alot more things than we do. If I don't wear my seatbelt, I should not get a ticket !! I do believe seatbelts are good in many cases, so are airbags, but if we don't want to wear them, or if we want to be able to turn them off, we should have that right !
Let's take the gloves off & move on to happier subjects ?
------------------
Sean in Texas
https://www.f150online.com/features/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Show/7936
97 White/Tan Lariat - Leather, Power Everything, Tan Leather Floor Console, 2 Chamber Flowmaster Cat Back Duals w/Chrome Exits, AirAid Intake, "SuperChip" brand Chip, All Synth. Fluids, Custom Painted TB Cover, Blue Wire Loomed Engine, Hellwig Rear Sway Bar, 17x9.5 Centerline Scorpions, w/275/60/17 Dunlop Sport Rover GTX Tires, Cool Collar, Polished Billet Grille & Bumper Insert, Chrome Diff. Cover, Pendaliner SR, Clear Corner Lenses, Superwhites Headlights, Stainless Steel Nerf Bars, Kenwood Excelon Speakers, Polk Audio db Series 10" Sub, Kenwood 818 Sub. Amp, LMI Rear Seat Kit, Color Matched "Tan" (Eddie Bauer/Expedition) rear bumper, Ford Hitch Cover/Lock, Door Sill Protectors, "ARE - Hard Tonneau Cover", ...I know there is more but can't think of it now... OH yeah.. & a Fully Loaded "Viper" Alarm to guard it ALL !
Next to "Be Added",.."Power Aid" & more I'm sure !
"With a Nice 2 Tone Paint Job" !!!!!
#84
12-22-1999, 03:53 AM
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>>>>Three pages and growing LOL.....Raoul, why don't you start a thread debating Row vs Wade next.... 
>>>>Seatbelts do what they are supposed to, prevent injuries and the loss of lives in MOST accidents, not all, but most. Say you are traveling at 35mph, you hit something, stopping your vehicle. 35 does not seem too severe until you consider your unseatbelted body will continue to travel at 35mph inside the vehicle until it strikes the steering wheel, windshield, ect. ect. Do you think if you jumped out of a vehicle at 35mph and into a hard wall you would be ok? Probably not. Where seatbelts don't help is when your body experiences a 40mph or greater sudden change in velocity (not to mean an impact speed of 40mph, but a sudden 40mph change from one velocity to another). Usually the hearts aortic valve will tear from the sudden change in g forces. This is where the seatbelt, airbag, and crush from the sheetmetal/body of the car combine to help reduce or slow the change in velocity to hopefully a more survivable speed. Ofcourse the higher the speeds, the greater the change in velocity, which lessens the effectiveness of the safety features. Ofcourse there are the incidents like SS97Ford's story where he could have lost his legs had he been belted in. When you think about it, he was lucky to have not been wearing his seatbelt or he might have lost his legs. But when you think about it another way, he was also lucky he was not ejected completely where he could have been ran over by his or another vehicle, or thown into a tree/rock. But when you compare the stories like that in the same light with the number of injuries and lives that are saved by seatbelts then it becomes painfully obvious, seatbelts work.
>>>>I have investigated somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 (give or take a few) reportable accidents (not counting the ones I have assisted in investigating) in my ten years as a police officer, this doesn't count the many hundreds that were minor fender benders and were not reportable or required investigation. This may or may not seem like a lot, but in a rural area it's a lot. Based on my experience I put seatbelt enforcement only second to DUI enforcement as to what I as a police officer can do to help save lives when it comes to traffic enforcement. Hell, I've had people look me up and thank me for writing them a ticket for not wearing their seatbelt, because of the ticket they started wearing it, they were later in an accident, and felt it prevented them serious injury (no joke). It's just that I or any of the officers I know don't see the accidents where the seatbelt kills or where by not wearing them saves. This is not to say it doesn't happen, but it should give you an indicator as to how rare it is. Not wearing a seatbelt is kind of like playing russian roulette.
>>>>If some of you firmly believe you are better off without them, then you are entitled to your beliefs and opinions and I respect that. Just remember that I firmly believe that seatbelt enforcement can make a difference maybe saving a life or two, and I'm not just writing you a ticket for the hell of it, I believe it can make a difference......you can respect that or not............
.............later, Patrick
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99 F150 XLT SC 4x4 4.6 liter Deep Wedgewood Blue
Westin Nerf Bars , Lund Bug Deflector , Kenwood 10 disc CD changer, Bodyguard Bed Liner
[This message has been edited by JPF1715 (edited 12-22-1999).]
>>>>Seatbelts do what they are supposed to, prevent injuries and the loss of lives in MOST accidents, not all, but most. Say you are traveling at 35mph, you hit something, stopping your vehicle. 35 does not seem too severe until you consider your unseatbelted body will continue to travel at 35mph inside the vehicle until it strikes the steering wheel, windshield, ect. ect. Do you think if you jumped out of a vehicle at 35mph and into a hard wall you would be ok? Probably not. Where seatbelts don't help is when your body experiences a 40mph or greater sudden change in velocity (not to mean an impact speed of 40mph, but a sudden 40mph change from one velocity to another). Usually the hearts aortic valve will tear from the sudden change in g forces. This is where the seatbelt, airbag, and crush from the sheetmetal/body of the car combine to help reduce or slow the change in velocity to hopefully a more survivable speed. Ofcourse the higher the speeds, the greater the change in velocity, which lessens the effectiveness of the safety features. Ofcourse there are the incidents like SS97Ford's story where he could have lost his legs had he been belted in. When you think about it, he was lucky to have not been wearing his seatbelt or he might have lost his legs. But when you think about it another way, he was also lucky he was not ejected completely where he could have been ran over by his or another vehicle, or thown into a tree/rock. But when you compare the stories like that in the same light with the number of injuries and lives that are saved by seatbelts then it becomes painfully obvious, seatbelts work.
>>>>I have investigated somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 (give or take a few) reportable accidents (not counting the ones I have assisted in investigating) in my ten years as a police officer, this doesn't count the many hundreds that were minor fender benders and were not reportable or required investigation. This may or may not seem like a lot, but in a rural area it's a lot. Based on my experience I put seatbelt enforcement only second to DUI enforcement as to what I as a police officer can do to help save lives when it comes to traffic enforcement. Hell, I've had people look me up and thank me for writing them a ticket for not wearing their seatbelt, because of the ticket they started wearing it, they were later in an accident, and felt it prevented them serious injury (no joke). It's just that I or any of the officers I know don't see the accidents where the seatbelt kills or where by not wearing them saves. This is not to say it doesn't happen, but it should give you an indicator as to how rare it is. Not wearing a seatbelt is kind of like playing russian roulette.
>>>>If some of you firmly believe you are better off without them, then you are entitled to your beliefs and opinions and I respect that. Just remember that I firmly believe that seatbelt enforcement can make a difference maybe saving a life or two, and I'm not just writing you a ticket for the hell of it, I believe it can make a difference......you can respect that or not............
.............later, Patrick
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99 F150 XLT SC 4x4 4.6 liter Deep Wedgewood Blue
Westin Nerf Bars , Lund Bug Deflector , Kenwood 10 disc CD changer, Bodyguard Bed Liner
[This message has been edited by JPF1715 (edited 12-22-1999).]
#85
12-22-1999, 04:33 AM
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SS97Ford,
>>>>Are you an accident reconstructionist or is that just a branch of the firm you work for? If you are an accident reconstructionist, how do you like doing it in the private sector? Who trained your firms's reconstructionists? I was trained by IPTM out of Florida. I'm thinking about doing some part time reconstruction work for an insurance company after I retire from the state police. A long time down the road I know, just curious how you enjoy it.
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99 F150 XLT SC 4x4 4.6 liter Deep Wedgewood Blue
Westin Nerf Bars , Lund Bug Deflector , Kenwood 10 disc CD changer, Bodyguard Bed Liner
[This message has been edited by JPF1715 (edited 12-22-1999).]
>>>>Are you an accident reconstructionist or is that just a branch of the firm you work for? If you are an accident reconstructionist, how do you like doing it in the private sector? Who trained your firms's reconstructionists? I was trained by IPTM out of Florida. I'm thinking about doing some part time reconstruction work for an insurance company after I retire from the state police. A long time down the road I know, just curious how you enjoy it.
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99 F150 XLT SC 4x4 4.6 liter Deep Wedgewood Blue
Westin Nerf Bars , Lund Bug Deflector , Kenwood 10 disc CD changer, Bodyguard Bed Liner
[This message has been edited by JPF1715 (edited 12-22-1999).]
#86
12-22-1999, 07:32 AM
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wow, this thing just keeps growing.
raoul you always seem to bring out the best in us. maybe we should have a contest of who starts the longest lasting threads.
jp: thanks for your understanding. over the years i have had the pleasure of paying three tickets for not wearing belts and have never slighted the officer for doing their job.
all i ask is for the choice, i'm a big boy and i understand it is the law to wear one and if i get stopped it is entirely my fault.
glad to see there are a few who agree with me. let us like adults and make our own choices.
andthensome2: belts were designed by a man with that in mind. had to find a way to snug up those loose fitting sweaters.
raoul you always seem to bring out the best in us. maybe we should have a contest of who starts the longest lasting threads.
jp: thanks for your understanding. over the years i have had the pleasure of paying three tickets for not wearing belts and have never slighted the officer for doing their job.
all i ask is for the choice, i'm a big boy and i understand it is the law to wear one and if i get stopped it is entirely my fault.
glad to see there are a few who agree with me. let us like adults and make our own choices.
andthensome2: belts were designed by a man with that in mind. had to find a way to snug up those loose fitting sweaters.
#87
12-22-1999, 01:35 PM
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JPF,
No, I am not an accident reconstructionist myself, but this is a long answer to your question.
I do CAD work, I draw up accident scenes on the computer. I also go out to them w/the VAR people I am doing it for, whether it be for the firm I work for, or my own personal business. I have seen quite a few scenes. I was also on site at the Rodeo here in Austin where the kids got killed on the Himalaya ride, but that's another story. The safety bar was not working properly.
I also do Fire Investigation Cause & Origin & just got my P.I. license last week due to new Texas State Law.
But my main "Bread & Butter" is drawing up houses for "My Business" & the Firm I work for. This consists of Forensic CAD drawings relating to insurance claims. The bulk of business comes directly from insurance companies & lawyers.
I sort of have a wide variety of the different types of work I do.
Our firm is strictly a "Forensic Investigations" business consisting of "EVERY" imaginable degreed Engineer there is... no joke, every type.
SS
[This message has been edited by SS97Ford (edited 12-22-1999).]
No, I am not an accident reconstructionist myself, but this is a long answer to your question.
I do CAD work, I draw up accident scenes on the computer. I also go out to them w/the VAR people I am doing it for, whether it be for the firm I work for, or my own personal business. I have seen quite a few scenes. I was also on site at the Rodeo here in Austin where the kids got killed on the Himalaya ride, but that's another story. The safety bar was not working properly.
I also do Fire Investigation Cause & Origin & just got my P.I. license last week due to new Texas State Law.
But my main "Bread & Butter" is drawing up houses for "My Business" & the Firm I work for. This consists of Forensic CAD drawings relating to insurance claims. The bulk of business comes directly from insurance companies & lawyers.
I sort of have a wide variety of the different types of work I do.
Our firm is strictly a "Forensic Investigations" business consisting of "EVERY" imaginable degreed Engineer there is... no joke, every type.
SS
[This message has been edited by SS97Ford (edited 12-22-1999).]
#88
12-22-1999, 01:57 PM
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I was not referring to breaking the law, hell yes I speed and break the law, but was referring to safety. Why would anyone want to fly around the inside (or maybe outside) like a projectile?!?! Common sense tells me to tighten my skinny butt down to the seat and minimize the head banging. Love ya, mean it! Merry Christmas!
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HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA.....Roll Tide!
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'97 F150 XLT XCab, 4.6L, 4x4, Red as Rita's Rooster, Towing Pkg, 17 inch wheels, Tonneau Cover, Captain chairs, CD Changer. Two high performance, freeflow booster seats in back for mother's little truckers.
HUNTSVILLE, ALABAMA.....Roll Tide!
#89
12-22-1999, 02:26 PM
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Allright...here's my $.02: First of all, I ALWAYS wear my belts, and anyone in my vehicle wears them as well...or they don't ride in the vehicle...period. To ME, it's automatic and a no-brainer...as I put the key in the ignition I am reaching for the strap.
Having said that, I will also say that I support a person's right to choose NOT to wear a belt...under one condition...that either a law is enacted or a document is signed at time of licensing stating that if a person (ANY person) is involved in an accident and they have not used seat belts per applicable state law, they forfeit the right to sue the other party for damages due to physical injury as a result of the accident, even if the accident is NOT their fault.
I know that there are many many cases of accidents where injury or even death could have been avoided if seatbeals were not worn, but the overwhelming statistical evidence by the NTHSA, auto manufacturers, law enforcement agencies, and insurance companies supports their use and has proven their general effectiveness. If a person wants to "live hard and ride free" (or whatever that saying is), I am 100% behind you. And I am 100% behind freedom of choice in this country...to the extent where another persons decision doesn't ruin me. Do I think a person is stupid for not using them? Absolutely not. It's your life and your body and your personal decision. Same applies to requiring those on a motorcycle to wear a helmet. You want to ride without one? Not a problem...sign the waiver and ride on!
I'd be willing to bet that if that was a law or requirement, there would be much less resistance to wearing a seatbelt or helmet.
Have a happy and safe holiday
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1999 F-150 4x4 SuperCab, Deep Wedgewood Blue, ORP, 4-Wheel ABS, Loaded, Flowmaster 50 series, K&N, Tint, Super-White headlights, Westin Nerf Bars, Toff Spray-On Bedliner, Pioneer DEH-P3000 and TS-A6815 speakers, ADS PQ/8 amp.
Having said that, I will also say that I support a person's right to choose NOT to wear a belt...under one condition...that either a law is enacted or a document is signed at time of licensing stating that if a person (ANY person) is involved in an accident and they have not used seat belts per applicable state law, they forfeit the right to sue the other party for damages due to physical injury as a result of the accident, even if the accident is NOT their fault.
I know that there are many many cases of accidents where injury or even death could have been avoided if seatbeals were not worn, but the overwhelming statistical evidence by the NTHSA, auto manufacturers, law enforcement agencies, and insurance companies supports their use and has proven their general effectiveness. If a person wants to "live hard and ride free" (or whatever that saying is), I am 100% behind you. And I am 100% behind freedom of choice in this country...to the extent where another persons decision doesn't ruin me. Do I think a person is stupid for not using them? Absolutely not. It's your life and your body and your personal decision. Same applies to requiring those on a motorcycle to wear a helmet. You want to ride without one? Not a problem...sign the waiver and ride on!
I'd be willing to bet that if that was a law or requirement, there would be much less resistance to wearing a seatbelt or helmet.
Have a happy and safe holiday
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1999 F-150 4x4 SuperCab, Deep Wedgewood Blue, ORP, 4-Wheel ABS, Loaded, Flowmaster 50 series, K&N, Tint, Super-White headlights, Westin Nerf Bars, Toff Spray-On Bedliner, Pioneer DEH-P3000 and TS-A6815 speakers, ADS PQ/8 amp.
#90
12-22-1999, 10:48 PM
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