http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27590778

 

So,
You wanna bail them and the others out or what?
Capitalist would say no.
Socialist would say yes.

The industry already got 25 billion.
Now they want 25 more.

I say let the market work unregulated.

 

I didn't say a damn thing. I just read it this morning and thought it was interesting.

 

On a similar note last week I also found it interesting that GM wanted the government to fund their buyout of Chrysler.
Today they say they only have enough money to make it to the end of the year.

What do you think they should do?
They meaning Ford, GM, the government...

 

GM reported a $2.5 BILLION loss so I guess Ford is doing OK.

The government should not bail out anybody. If GM can't afford Chrysler then they don't buy Chrysler. Maybe the UAW can give a little back.

 

They need to reinvent themselves.
Do not bail any business out.
Propping up a failing business on the taxpayer dime is ridiculous.

 

Ford needs a blockbuster car. Looking at sales even from just a few years ago, they are down tremendously. I watch and track month to month sales and it is bad. On a good note, the F-series bounced back a bit in October and posted 43K units, but it is a far cry from just in 04 they were selling close to 80K units. The Explorer in October of 04 sold roughly 29K units to just barley 4K units in October in 08. The same with the Taurus, the Taurus posted close to 17K units of October of 04 and posted 2,500 units in October of 08. This is not good for Ford. There are bright spots. The Fusion is getting good reviews and getting good solid monthly sales and the 2010 Taurus is supposed to be completely redesigned. Lincoln unveiled the MKS this year and it is a stunning car and will soon be fitted with the Eco-Boost engine. In its first months of production it was outselling the Acura RL, Infiniti M35 and Cadillac STS. Ford is supposed to introduce it's European models into the line up. The Fiesta is going to be one of the first in 2010 and hopefully followed by the Kuga which alot of people are begging Ford to send, along with the C-Max. It should be interesting to watch in the next couple of years, Ford could possible bounce back and be the once powerful auto maker it once was..I hope anyway..

 

IMHO it's not the lack of products from Ford that is hurting them. It's the economy and high fuel prices. If people don't have jobs and money, they won't be buying, no matter how good the product is.

 

Let 'em crash and burn, and pick themselves back up. No one got them into this position except them.

 

I certainly agree and also disagree. Ford as a whole sold 132K in October, it is down considerably from past years but people are still buying, but what are they buying?. Now the economy is bad now, but it is going to come back and so are gas prices, Ford has to be ready. Ford's bread and butter is the F-150 but you cannot make it on the F-150 alone in this market. Competition in the auto industry has gotten alot stronger. Look at companies like Kia and Hyundai, they were the laughing stock of the industry just a few years agao and now they are building cars that are targeting BMW and Mercedes. It is not a joke anymore, these smaller companies are stealing more and more units from the domestics every year. Ford has got to get people into the show rooms with smaller more efficient vehicles that have appeal. Now they have taken a step in the right direction but they need a few more models to appeal to the younger buyer aswell as the emerging buyer who is eco-conscious. The Euro models fit that bill and they are nice cars. I am really impressed with the Euro Focus, you can see that the car looks like it is inspired by Volvo and it is available in a convertible, the car is beautiful. This is the kind of car people are looking for.

Euro Focus
http://www.autospies.com/images/user...ertible_01.jpg

Euro Kuga
http://www.thetorquereport.com/ford_kuga_red2.jpg

C-Max
http://www.rodavante.com/Admin/Image...accar/cmax.jpg

C-Max interior
http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive...C-Max-3-lg.jpg

Fiesta
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/res...ord-Fiesta.jpg

 

What the american car markers need to do is.....

1. Make reliable cars/ Quality products.

This is a big issue. If you think its true or not, most people regard american cars as unreliable. That is the perception, if its true or not.

2. Make cars people want to buy.

3. Make the transition to alternative fuel cars, hybrid cars, super fuel efficient gas cars, natural gas cars...........you get the idea. Now, not tommorow.

4. Raise milage standards

5. If they have trouble selling cars and trucks they need to cut production.

6. They need to stop acting and spending like the top auto makers in the world. As of today they are not.

 

I'm opposed to (another) bailout. But we will get one.

The union retirement packages have basically killed the American auto maker. With the current economy, they can't make enough money to fund the health care and retirement packages they have committed to.

One possible form of bailout would be for the government to take over the autoworker's pension liability. I'm expect it would cost a lot more than $25 billion, though.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081107/...EJmYNveGxh24cA
GM lost a lot more, and looks like they will not be buying Chrysler anytime soon, unless something works out with this:
"GM owns 49 percent of the money-losing GMAC, with the remainder owned by Cerberus Capital Management LP.

Cerberus also owns a majority stake in Chrysler, and has reportedly been in talks about selling the Chrysler auto operations to GM possibly in exchange for a part of GM's stake in the GMAC business."

Either way, looks like GM is going to lose it's butt, Ford will also lose a ton more and it's hard telling what will happen to Chrysler.

The problem now is that there is no entry-level car for the masses that looks good, gets decent mileage and is fairly reliable.

I am self-employed, make a good chunk of change but do not want to put 5-6k down on a new car just to get financed, and with fairly high credit scorew, I shouldn't have to, but being self-employed screws me.

If the new Fusion were around 9k or so starting out, it would rout the business. Kids working at McDonald's won't ever be able to afford a new car, and I don't mean a new fully-loaded King Ranch, I mean a new plain-jain stripped beater.

If there was one in a price range for them offered by Chevrolet or Ford, it would rule the market. Right now, though, they can make 20k a year and still need a cosigner to get a Cobalt.

Greed is the reason the auto industry is down. If they would come down on prices a little, they may sell some more cars. Employee pricing my butt, I mean rethink the whole cost of new vehicles, at least in certain markets for certain cars.

 

i think your right. i mean why do the whole $10000 off sticker of a $35000 vehicle to begin with. just price the car at $25000 and sell it for that to begin with.

we need to get rid of the 6 hour haggling and all that crap. you should be able to buy a car in under an hour. even less if you walk in with your own pre-approved loan. (like i always do) having to deal with the salesguy making 6 trips back and forth from his manager to you to get an extra $2000 off is stupid. its like dealing with greedy house flippers or home builders who think there home is worth $50000 more than it is.

 

So true. There's no reason to have to fight about it after you are pre-approved and you know what it's worth. I understand that the salesman obviously want to sell the car for more, because they get more, but I think making a little on a whole bunch of cars would be better than making a bunch off of one.