We know he's a "progressive". How about a socialist?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Massachusetts
I guess you really don't understand. Of our two choices, Obama seems to be the one that is making an effort to hide things he's done. We know who McCain is. They are both politicians, and to many of us, that has the most effect on how much we trust them. It's not that I, or any of us "right wingers" trust McCain. That explaination has been given to you multiple times on this forum. The point is, Obama appears LESS trustworthy than McCain.
.I guess you didn't understand my origional post. What it does is acknowledge the progressive movement, and that it has done some good but that I feel that in recent times it's gone far to the left. I explain that I understand that there are people who identify with the progressive movement and that there is a market for it in this country. I then provide a link to a page explaining progressivism.
About socialism, I say that it seems like the next step from progressivism, but that I don't think that progressives would want to take that step. I then provide a link explaning socialism.
It is then that I bring Obama into the conversation. I do so because in the links that I provide, and admit may be suspect, they assert that Obama was a member of a socialist party, the "New Party".
I don't believe that I said anything to give the impression that I thought that progressivism=socialism.
About socialism, I say that it seems like the next step from progressivism, but that I don't think that progressives would want to take that step. I then provide a link explaning socialism.
It is then that I bring Obama into the conversation. I do so because in the links that I provide, and admit may be suspect, they assert that Obama was a member of a socialist party, the "New Party".
I don't believe that I said anything to give the impression that I thought that progressivism=socialism.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 150
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From: NY
After all these years... I still have not heard of ONE SINGLE lost "right". Last I checked, I'm still able to do what ever it is that I want to do (with in the law) in this country.
So... again I ask... what rights as citizens of the USA have we lost under Bush?
I'm not usually in the business of sticking up for the guy... but SERIOUSLY, these allegations are non-stop, yet not on single shred of evidence is presented. Lots of hyperbole, lots of FUD, lots of reactionary BS... NO FACTS.
I'd think this better sums up Obama, rather than Bush.
So... again I ask... what rights as citizens of the USA have we lost under Bush?
I'm not usually in the business of sticking up for the guy... but SERIOUSLY, these allegations are non-stop, yet not on single shred of evidence is presented. Lots of hyperbole, lots of FUD, lots of reactionary BS... NO FACTS.
I'd think this better sums up Obama, rather than Bush.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
After all these years... I still have not heard of ONE SINGLE lost "right". Last I checked, I'm still able to do what ever it is that I want to do (with in the law) in this country.
So... again I ask... what rights as citizens of the USA have we lost under Bush?
I'm not usually in the business of sticking up for the guy... but SERIOUSLY, these allegations are non-stop, yet not on single shred of evidence is presented. Lots of hyperbole, lots of FUD, lots of reactionary BS... NO FACTS.
I'd think this better sums up Obama, rather than Bush.
So... again I ask... what rights as citizens of the USA have we lost under Bush?
I'm not usually in the business of sticking up for the guy... but SERIOUSLY, these allegations are non-stop, yet not on single shred of evidence is presented. Lots of hyperbole, lots of FUD, lots of reactionary BS... NO FACTS.
I'd think this better sums up Obama, rather than Bush.
Here's a little list
FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.
Your turn, what has Obama displayed that he will take rights away from you?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 443
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From: Massachusetts
Would you expect anyone to repeal any of this? The most dangerous thing Bush has done is not these acts, but the precedent he has set.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 150
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From: NY
Here's a little list
FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.
RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.
FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.
Do you have something to be worried about?
RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.
RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.
Your turn, what has Obama displayed that he will take rights away from you?
Last edited by S-76; Oct 13, 2008 at 05:55 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
You need to cite the source of this list ... but until then...
Nope sorry. I'm still free to associate with anyone I want. I'm not "free" from the consequences of "questionable" associations
Please use this in context and site a case, please. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
Sorry again. I'm still free to talk to anyone about anything I choose. I'm still not "free" from the consequences of whom I spoke to and about what.
Please use this in context and site a case, please. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
Your answer is in the statement..."to assist terror investigation..."
Do you have something to be worried about?
Please use this in context and site a case, please. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
Please use this in context and site a case, please. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
One acronym... A.C.O.R.N.
Nope sorry. I'm still free to associate with anyone I want. I'm not "free" from the consequences of "questionable" associations
Please use this in context and site a case, please. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
Sorry again. I'm still free to talk to anyone about anything I choose. I'm still not "free" from the consequences of whom I spoke to and about what.
Please use this in context and site a case, please. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
Your answer is in the statement..."to assist terror investigation..."
Do you have something to be worried about?
Please use this in context and site a case, please. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
Please use this in context and site a case, please. Until then, it's pure conjecture.
One acronym... A.C.O.R.N.
