Any plumbers here? Toilet problem

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Old Apr 27, 2008 | 10:40 PM
  #16  
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I'm a plumber. Maybe I can help.

There are a lot of possible causes. First thing that comes to my mind is a partial blockage in the sewer. I would snake the drain.

There are actually a ton of questions that I would ask to get a better idea of what it might be. Like how old is the house? Has there been obvious changes to the plumbing? Is the toilet/bathroom affected original to the house?

What can happen is if there is a partial blockage the water leaves the drain slowly and can pull water with it if the vent is tied in far downstream. Here in MA, a vent on a three inch drain, which is what size we'de use for a toilet most of the time, can be eight feet away. Four inch drain, the vent can be ten feet away. It's possible for the vent branch to be blocked for some of the time the water slowly leaves the sewer, so the toilet would be the piont of least resistance. If the sewer is four inch in size, you can fit a good amount of water in there. That's why it seems that other fixtures are draining ok, because there is enough room in the pipe to take the water you put in there.

I hope that you can get something from what I've said. I know that I'm not always the best at explaining these things, especially over the internet. I may be way off on this. I'd really have to know more to make a better assesment.

Hope you can get this figured out without spending a fortune!

Good luck!
 
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Old Apr 27, 2008 | 10:47 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by wittom
I'm a plumber. Maybe I can help.

There are a lot of possible causes. First thing that comes to my mind is a partial blockage in the sewer. I would snake the drain.

There are actually a ton of questions that I would ask to get a better idea of what it might be. Like how old is the house? Has there been obvious changes to the plumbing? Is the toilet/bathroom affected original to the house?

What can happen is if there is a partial blockage the water leaves the drain slowly and can pull water with it if the vent is tied in far downstream. Here in MA, a vent on a three inch drain, which is what size we'de use for a toilet most of the time, can be eight feet away. Four inch drain, the vent can be ten feet away. It's possible for the vent branch to be blocked for some of the time the water slowly leaves the sewer, so the toilet would be the piont of least resistance. If the sewer is four inch in size, you can fit a good amount of water in there. That's why it seems that other fixtures are draining ok, because there is enough room in the pipe to take the water you put in there.

I hope that you can get something from what I've said. I know that I'm not always the best at explaining these things, especially over the internet. I may be way off on this. I'd really have to know more to make a better assesment.

Hope you can get this figured out without spending a fortune!

Good luck!
excelent description!
 
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Old Apr 27, 2008 | 11:40 PM
  #18  
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Is the toilet the only thing in the basement that has a drain, or do you have other plumbing down there?
 
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Old Apr 28, 2008 | 09:40 AM
  #19  
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Flush and let it fill then add some food coloring to the full tank. Check back later and see if it seeped into the bowl. If it did either the flapper isn't sealing or the tube the flapper is on needs a new gasket. If you pull the tank to change that seal you might as well replace the whole mechanism instead of just the seal. 10-20 bucks tops. Don't forget to get new bolts with rubber washers.

It could very well be anything wittom said too. Just throwing out another idea.
 
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Old Apr 28, 2008 | 10:27 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by wittom
I'm a plumber. Maybe I can help.

There are a lot of possible causes. First thing that comes to my mind is a partial blockage in the sewer. I would snake the drain.

There are actually a ton of questions that I would ask to get a better idea of what it might be. Like how old is the house? Has there been obvious changes to the plumbing? Is the toilet/bathroom affected original to the house?

What can happen is if there is a partial blockage the water leaves the drain slowly and can pull water with it if the vent is tied in far downstream. Here in MA, a vent on a three inch drain, which is what size we'de use for a toilet most of the time, can be eight feet away. Four inch drain, the vent can be ten feet away. It's possible for the vent branch to be blocked for some of the time the water slowly leaves the sewer, so the toilet would be the piont of least resistance. If the sewer is four inch in size, you can fit a good amount of water in there. That's why it seems that other fixtures are draining ok, because there is enough room in the pipe to take the water you put in there.

I hope that you can get something from what I've said. I know that I'm not always the best at explaining these things, especially over the internet. I may be way off on this. I'd really have to know more to make a better assesment.

Hope you can get this figured out without spending a fortune!

Good luck!
The house was built in 1996. I just bought the house in February and moved in March 14th. I don't recall if the toilet was having this problem when we first moved in. I didn't pay much attention.

The basement was not finished at the time the house was built. The previous owners finished the basement three years ago and put in the bathroom at that time.

I will try to snake the drain as well to see if that fixes it.

Thanks for your suggestions.
 
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Old Apr 28, 2008 | 10:28 AM
  #21  
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From: N.E. Iowa
Originally Posted by glc
Is the toilet the only thing in the basement that has a drain, or do you have other plumbing down there?
Their is a bathtub in that basement bathroom as well. Also the plumbing for the washer is in the basement.
 
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Old Apr 28, 2008 | 10:30 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Larry227
Flush and let it fill then add some food coloring to the full tank. Check back later and see if it seeped into the bowl. If it did either the flapper isn't sealing or the tube the flapper is on needs a new gasket. If you pull the tank to change that seal you might as well replace the whole mechanism instead of just the seal. 10-20 bucks tops. Don't forget to get new bolts with rubber washers.

It could very well be anything wittom said too. Just throwing out another idea.
Thanks for your suggestions but the water is leaving the bowl not the tank. I checked the flapper and it is sealing and there is no water leaking from the tank into the bowl.
 
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Old Apr 28, 2008 | 10:51 AM
  #23  
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Sorry. Sometimes I read too fast.
 
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Old Apr 28, 2008 | 08:35 PM
  #24  
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From: Western Massachusetts
Originally Posted by jjr8214
The house was built in 1996. I just bought the house in February and moved in March 14th. I don't recall if the toilet was having this problem when we first moved in. I didn't pay much attention.

The basement was not finished at the time the house was built. The previous owners finished the basement three years ago and put in the bathroom at that time.
You don't have a lot of history in this house, which is something that can help to figure out what's going on.

We have a few customers who have chronic root problems in their sewer piping. Every five or so years we have to snake the sewer and remove the root build up. I mention a sewer back up in your case because your symptoms are similar to ones that I've seen with root problems.

Another thing that I would want to know is, was it a plumbing contractor that did the plumbing for the bathroom? Were there permits taken out? (I'm not sure if they are necessary in your state, they are here.) I've seen a few cases where the homeowner did their own plumbing. Some people get it right, some don't. There is one in particular that comes to mind. We got a call from their realtor because the buyers inspector said that there was something wrong with the lav drain. I went there to have a look. What I found is that "someone" who was not a licensed plumbing contractor did the plumbing. They redid the plumbing in the whole house (it was only a ranch). The carpentry and finish work were beautiful. The plumbing was all wrong. All of it. We had to essentially plumb the entire house. The seller had to eat a few grand on that deal. The point is, if they got a permit to have bathroom done, you should be in good shape.

A plugged vent generally makes it so that the water (or whatever else) in the toilet does not go down all the way. Often it will fill almost to the top, like it's going to spill over. Then take a long time to go down. When it goes down it'll often be almost empty. Most of the plugged vents that I've seen were on older homes, usually ones with cast iron drain/vent piping. Your home should have PVC or ABS piping. It can't hurt to have a look down the vent stack from the roof.

Are you on city sewer, or do you have a septic system? A septic system may look good at the time of the inspection, but there could still be issues. If you have a septic system, make sure that the previous owner had the tank pumped regularly and that there haven't been any issues with the leach fields. I've been on a few where the first thing I did was to check the inlet baffle in the tank, which is where a problem often is.

It might not be a big deal at all. I know I tend to look at the worst possible causes. That's kind of part of my job. Keep us informed on what you find. Maybe I can learn something too!
 
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Old Apr 28, 2008 | 09:18 PM
  #25  
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I don't live in an area where basements are the norm.

But do some basements have a lift pump to get up to the sewage line?

 
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Old Apr 29, 2008 | 03:05 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by silversvt04
I havew some plumbers over tommorow to set my new slab on grade installation bathtub. I will ask them if the puzzle is not solved. I'm an amature plumber so I'm out of ideas.
same here, I went to plumber school.......sadly the only thing I could pass was showing off my butt crack, I failed everything else horribly
 
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Old Apr 29, 2008 | 10:48 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Tumba
I don't live in an area where basements are the norm.

But do some basements have a lift pump to get up to the sewage line?

No, because the sewage line is below the basement floor level. At least around here they are.
 
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Old Apr 29, 2008 | 05:14 PM
  #28  
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From: Western Massachusetts
Originally Posted by Tumba
But do some basements have a lift pump to get up to the sewage line?
Yes. a pump is needed if the plumbing in the basement is below the elevation of the sewer serving the house. Here in MA the only things that are allowed to drain into a pump chamber are the fixtures that cannot drain by gravity.

If you think about it, water (and the stuff it contains) runs down hill. All drainage pipes have to pitch in the direction of where all the stuff ends up. In a city sewer all the pipes that go to the treatment plant pitch in a direction to get it there. If that's not practicle then they would pump the sewerage where necessary. If you happen to be in an area of the city where the city sewer is deep in the ground then you aren't going to have to pump the sewerage from basement fixtures. If you're in an area where the sewer is high, like the beginning of a run (the high end of a pitching pipe) then your fixtures are below the level of the city sewer and cannot drain gravity like the fixtures on the upper floors.

It's basicly the same for a septic system. They are engineered with a lot of factors in mind. The leaching properties of the soil being a big factor. If the water table is high in an area then the tank will have to be high. This would set the elevation of the sewer pipe above the basement floor, above where basememt fixtures would be. If there is a lot of clay, or dense soil that doesn't allow proper leaching then the tank might be set lower, so that it would be below the basment floor.

So the answer is yes. Not all basements need a pump, in fact in this area there aren't all that many. Some do need them though.
 

Last edited by wittom; Apr 29, 2008 at 05:19 PM.
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