Question about a Middle Name
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From: In a van down by the river
Question about a Middle Name
Hey Guys and Girls,
I have this nagging feeling this thread will turn into personal attacks, political arguing or off topic banter. However, please do your best NOT to do this. If it doesn’t, I’ll immediately contact RP to lock and/or delete the thread.
Here is the Topic:
Background-
I just read in at news article about the Presidential candidates that Barrack Obama’s middle name is Hussein. When one individual spoke out on his middle name to question whether he should keep it as Hussein, it was requested that all Presidential candidates not condone the comments.
My Question-
Let’s say my name is David Hitzig, because my mother married a German man and she took his last name. Now let’s say that my parents gave me a middle name of Hitler, and thus my name is David Hitler Hitzig. Would the media or special interest groups not put this all over the press or cry out against my full name? Or should we all accept my name for what it is and not point out the fact that my middle name is that of an individual who has caused genocide?
I’m interested in all points of view on this as I’m really torn either way. One part of me says that obviously a name does not show who a person truly is or what they stand for. However, the other part of me feels that a name, much like the way and individual chooses to dress or present themselves, is a statement to others and creates an image. For the same reason if I was a public figure who wore jeans with holes and someone was to comment on my attire, I would expect the same comment on my name.
I value diversity and all points of view in my threads. But I also value respect too, so let’s make sure we show each other that respect.
Thank you,
Duke
I have this nagging feeling this thread will turn into personal attacks, political arguing or off topic banter. However, please do your best NOT to do this. If it doesn’t, I’ll immediately contact RP to lock and/or delete the thread.
Here is the Topic:
Background-
I just read in at news article about the Presidential candidates that Barrack Obama’s middle name is Hussein. When one individual spoke out on his middle name to question whether he should keep it as Hussein, it was requested that all Presidential candidates not condone the comments.
My Question-
Let’s say my name is David Hitzig, because my mother married a German man and she took his last name. Now let’s say that my parents gave me a middle name of Hitler, and thus my name is David Hitler Hitzig. Would the media or special interest groups not put this all over the press or cry out against my full name? Or should we all accept my name for what it is and not point out the fact that my middle name is that of an individual who has caused genocide?
I’m interested in all points of view on this as I’m really torn either way. One part of me says that obviously a name does not show who a person truly is or what they stand for. However, the other part of me feels that a name, much like the way and individual chooses to dress or present themselves, is a statement to others and creates an image. For the same reason if I was a public figure who wore jeans with holes and someone was to comment on my attire, I would expect the same comment on my name.
I value diversity and all points of view in my threads. But I also value respect too, so let’s make sure we show each other that respect.
Thank you,
Duke
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I'm a teacher, and I've seen some CRAZY names. It definitely might make you think something stereotypical, but I think that any normal person would also take a minute and think, "Hey, this person didn't pick their name. So why should I think that it will have any bearing on who they are as a person." I might think their parents are a little weird, or might have been smoking something at the time.
My bottom line is... you can't judge a book by it's cover, why judge a person by their name? Only ignorant people do that
My bottom line is... you can't judge a book by it's cover, why judge a person by their name? Only ignorant people do that
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From: Hammer Lane
His name was Hussein long before Saddam was even heard of. It's a non-starter for me. I don't care what his name is; and, anyone who makes that a deciding issue is not particularly intelligent. I don't support the guy because I don't like, or am still in the dark, about his plans for this country if he's elected POTUS.
How politics are going to be kept out of this thread, I don't know. Good luck on that one.
How politics are going to be kept out of this thread, I don't know. Good luck on that one.
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From: In a van down by the river
Originally Posted by Odin's Wrath
How politics are going to be kept out of this thread, I don't know. Good luck on that one.
I didn't give it a much of a "call out" title so I'm betting that most people will just pass over it and never read it.I see the points made here and agree with both of them so far. My only rebuke would be the children are not public figures while a Presidential candidate is a public figure. One determination in a court of law is that public figures are open to additional scrutiny and have fewer rights around defamation then a private individual does.
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From: New Port Richey, FL
Originally Posted by F150 Duke
My only rebuke would be the children are not public figures while a Presidential candidate is a public figure. One determination in a court of law is that public figures are open to additional scrutiny and have fewer rights around defamation then a private individual does.
The ignorant people and hate mongers are the ones who will make a big deal about it, and the media loves a "big deal" and unfortunately people hear it enough and start to believe it. Just like the stupid people who still think he's Muslim.
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From: Windsor, Ont.
Middle names are middle names, given by our parents not intending to be intentionally offensive. If your parents did name you or gave you a stupid name middle or first for the reason of bieng stupid, then ya, your parents suck. I know of someone named Gay, hell, it meant something totally different 50 yrs ago so what do you do about that?
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The ignorant people and hate mongers are the ones who will make a big deal about it, and the media loves a "big deal" and unfortunately people hear it enough and start to believe it.
Agreed! Who cares if it is? He is not Saddam, totally different people. Judge him for who HE is, not what his middle name is. Hell most people dont even pay attention to or know others middle names. Or in my uncles case, he dont have one.
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From: the moral high ground
From what I understand, 'Hussein' is a common name in the Middle East, like Smith or Jones is over here.
As was stated above, Obama was born in 1961 and Saddam(Iraq) didn't come into power until 1979.
More than likely, Obama's dad was thinking of King Hussein of Jordon(1951-1998) when he picked a name. Hussein of Jordan was an alley of the US and Israel.
I have a question.
The Gov of Califorinia, Arnold, isn't allowed to run for the Presidency because the U.S. Constitution requires that the President be born in the United States at least that's what I heard.
John Mccain was born in Panama.
As was stated above, Obama was born in 1961 and Saddam(Iraq) didn't come into power until 1979.
More than likely, Obama's dad was thinking of King Hussein of Jordon(1951-1998) when he picked a name. Hussein of Jordan was an alley of the US and Israel.
I have a question.
The Gov of Califorinia, Arnold, isn't allowed to run for the Presidency because the U.S. Constitution requires that the President be born in the United States at least that's what I heard.
John Mccain was born in Panama.
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From: In a van down by the river
Originally Posted by Raoul
From what I understand, 'Hussein' is a common name in the Middle East, like Smith or Jones is over here.
As was stated above, Obama was born in 1961 and Saddam(Iraq) didn't come into power until 1979.
More than likely, Obama's dad was thinking of King Hussein of Jordon(1951-1998) when he picked a name. Hussein of Jordan was an alley of the US and Israel.
I have a question.
The Gov of Califorinia, Arnold, isn't allowed to run for the Presidency because the U.S. Constitution requires that the President be born in the United States at least that's what I heard.
John Mccain was born in Panama.
As was stated above, Obama was born in 1961 and Saddam(Iraq) didn't come into power until 1979.
More than likely, Obama's dad was thinking of King Hussein of Jordon(1951-1998) when he picked a name. Hussein of Jordan was an alley of the US and Israel.
I have a question.
The Gov of Califorinia, Arnold, isn't allowed to run for the Presidency because the U.S. Constitution requires that the President be born in the United States at least that's what I heard.
John Mccain was born in Panama.
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From: Hammer Lane
Originally Posted by F150 Duke
Very estute! I just looked that up to. It was because his parents are US citizens and they were in the Panama Canal Zone because his father was in the US Navy. Being born outside of the 50 states but on a US base makes him a US Citizen.
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From: In a van down by the river
Originally Posted by Odin's Wrath
This has never been challenged in court. Or dealt with in Congress. That may change if he's elected. If not, the precedent will have been set.
From NBC's Joel Seidman
Ted Olson, the former Solicitor General under Bush who is advising McCain's camp on whether the Arizona senator being born in the Panama Canal Zone qualifies him to be president, emails NBC News: "Although I am continuing to research the matter, there is little doubt in my mind that Senator McCain fully meets the Constitution's qualifications to be President of the United States. In my view, the plain meaning of 'natural born citizen' includes persons who become citizens of this nation 'naturally,' that is by virtue of their birth to parents who are citizens, particularly when the birth takes place on territory occupied and controlled by the United States, in Senator McCain's case, a U. S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone. Indeed, the very First Congress, containing many Members who were the actual Framers of the Constitution, explicitly declared that children of United States citizens, born outside the limits of the United States, were 'natural born' citizens. I am confident that the United States Supreme Court, should it ever address the issue, would agree."
*** UPDATE *** I sent Jill Pryor, an Atlanta attorney, who 20 years ago wrote in the Yale Law Journal about the "Natural Born Enigma" an e-mail about Olson's remarks, and she said, in part, "Eligibility for ... children born on American military bases ... is also uncertain."
Here's what she wrote in full: "While I agree with Mr. Olson's conclusion, what I said in my article 20 years ago remains true today: 'Whether a person born abroad of American parents ... qualifies as natural born has never been resolved,' and that 'Eligibility for ... children born on American military bases ... is also uncertain.' Some have taken the view that 'natural born' means native born, that is, born in the United States, and there is no authority expressly to the contrary. The 'natural born' language in the naturalization statute passed by the first Congress, to which Mr. Olson refers, was deleted from a later version of the statute for unknown reasons. The early common law did not always provide that the children of citizens born abroad were citizens themselves, see for example dicta in Weedin v. Chin Bow, 274 U.S. 657, 663 (1927), and the automatic citizenship of persons born in United States territories or on military bases is of much more recent origin."
Ted Olson, the former Solicitor General under Bush who is advising McCain's camp on whether the Arizona senator being born in the Panama Canal Zone qualifies him to be president, emails NBC News: "Although I am continuing to research the matter, there is little doubt in my mind that Senator McCain fully meets the Constitution's qualifications to be President of the United States. In my view, the plain meaning of 'natural born citizen' includes persons who become citizens of this nation 'naturally,' that is by virtue of their birth to parents who are citizens, particularly when the birth takes place on territory occupied and controlled by the United States, in Senator McCain's case, a U. S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone. Indeed, the very First Congress, containing many Members who were the actual Framers of the Constitution, explicitly declared that children of United States citizens, born outside the limits of the United States, were 'natural born' citizens. I am confident that the United States Supreme Court, should it ever address the issue, would agree."
*** UPDATE *** I sent Jill Pryor, an Atlanta attorney, who 20 years ago wrote in the Yale Law Journal about the "Natural Born Enigma" an e-mail about Olson's remarks, and she said, in part, "Eligibility for ... children born on American military bases ... is also uncertain."
Here's what she wrote in full: "While I agree with Mr. Olson's conclusion, what I said in my article 20 years ago remains true today: 'Whether a person born abroad of American parents ... qualifies as natural born has never been resolved,' and that 'Eligibility for ... children born on American military bases ... is also uncertain.' Some have taken the view that 'natural born' means native born, that is, born in the United States, and there is no authority expressly to the contrary. The 'natural born' language in the naturalization statute passed by the first Congress, to which Mr. Olson refers, was deleted from a later version of the statute for unknown reasons. The early common law did not always provide that the children of citizens born abroad were citizens themselves, see for example dicta in Weedin v. Chin Bow, 274 U.S. 657, 663 (1927), and the automatic citizenship of persons born in United States territories or on military bases is of much more recent origin."
Ok, now back on track to the tune of the thread. The last point was while it doesn't say who he is as a person and an educated voter would not take it into consideration; is it still appropriate or not appropriate to say publically that his middle name is Hussein? A reporter referred to him as Barrack Hussein Obama in full and a letter of disapproval was sent by the Barrack Obama campaign for the use of his full name. If it should be a non-issue, then why is the campaign worried about it? (It was on CNN last night, I'd rather not have to look up the script or article on the matter to back what I watched for those who love to debate the facts of 1st hand depictions of an occurence).
Last edited by F150 Duke; Mar 12, 2008 at 03:51 PM.
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From: the moral high ground
Originally Posted by Odin's Wrath
This has never been challenged in court. Or dealt with in Congress. That may change if he's elected. If not, the precedent will have been set.
"................WTF............."
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From: In a van down by the river
Originally Posted by Raoul
"................WTF............."