I agree with some of what Hersh is saying, but some I don't. When Nissan launched the Titan it was their first full sized pick up and their first V8. Of course you're going to have problems... no excuse for them to put out a crappy product, but it is a fact. As far as Foreign car lemons I think it is out of sheer quantity. With so many foreign vehicles being sold now it is just a law of averages. Sooner or later there's going to be a few lemons; afterall humans are still building them.

My family and I have always driven Honda's; 5 accords, 3 civics, 1 type r integra, 2 pilots, 1 element, and 2 s2000's. We've never had a peep of trouble out of any of them. Some of my friends and their families who are die hard american have owned cavaliers, s10s, cherokees, wranglers, luminas, escorts, and so on... I'll just say they never had suck luck with their vehicles. Major engine and tranny problems, ac and electrical issues, factory paint defects, etc etc etc. When our hondas had 150,000 miles running strong their vehicles were missing interior trim pieces and needing new tranny's.

It's not to knock American cars... It is simply fact. That is why I have not owned anything American until my wife wanted the KR f150... honestly she only wanted it because of the seats!! If we look for a new car chevy, ford and chrysler don't even enter the mix. They may be built better these days, but the styling is drab and the interiors look 10 years behind the times!

 

Yes, I know that was their first truck...

All in all, its still a hell of a first shot, and I've got nothing but respect for Nissan's Titan. I even like the looks, but at the same time- I must admit that if it's angular looks weren't so polarizing (love it or hate it), meaning- if they'd gone with a more conservative look, they would have sold more units.

I tell you, after back to back screwings from GM- I vowed to NEVER buy another American car/truck. I bought a Nissan Maxima, and my wife had a bulletproof Honda Accord, then she got the Pathfinder.

I broke into a sweat as I handed Baillargeon Ford the keys to my Maxima in exchange for the keys to my 1999 F-150. Worried about buying yet another unreliable American product. But, at the end of the day, my F-150's and Ford's have been the only thing that's given me faith in the American manufacturers again. I might even give GM another try, one day.

I bought two brand new GM lemons.

1991 Cavalier VL Coupe
1994 Cutlass Supreme SL Coupe

If Ford hadn't made that 1997 F-150 so good looking, I'd never have come back to an American nameplate.

 

Like buying a ton of crap for our cars and trucks, like chrome wheels, lift kits, superchargers, and everything else we can fit on there?

That's no fun!

 

Sorry to tell you but you need to read up on Japanese industry/business worker relations. This is part of the reason why they currently run a large business/ government deficit in spite of the fact their business/auto industry flourishing.

Harley is a good example of an American product that flourished, dominated market share, didnt invest, lost market share, died and came back to life, didnt keep up with the competetion's progress, never regained market share because of same previous issues.
I dont know what you know about motorcycles but japanese v-twin clones and japanese motorcycles in general run circles around harley air cooled v-twins currently and for years before. They used to win everything race related and were #1 selling bike. Like American auto industry.
We agree on harley attitudes but I think most "buy American" car owners are just like Harley owners. Loyal to the name brand rational choice or not.

American auto industry prospered, lost market and was bailed out several times, still didnt invest in cutting edge tech until japan and europeans already had stolen market share.
Just like Harley.

 

What percent of american auto workers are union? There is a reason Chevy and Ford both are trying to buy out workers close to retirement... They cost them too much! The reason the auto workers union is going to break the US auto industry is simple; they are paying too much for simple services. Auto workers are generally unskilled workers. I'm not talking about machinist, welders etc. I'm talking about line workers, the jobs anyone can come in on without previous training. At some point auto makers will have to file bankrupcy and default on health care and retirement for these union workers. If you don't believe it look at the airline industry. It may not be soon, but it will happen. They do not make enough money to pay their retired workers the benefits guaranteed by their union contracts. Sooner or later the shoe's gonna drop.

 

Ha, so did I. I spent 2 grand on the ESP for the second GM, claimed 8 grand, and it still wasn't fixed properly once I dumped it after the extended warranty ran out. I was at the dealership so often I knew the guys in the garage on a first name basis.
Every Ford I've had since has treated me very well.

 

I do not believe that the American autoworker is to blame for the downfall of the Tundra & Titan. American autoworkers have produced millions of reliable vehicles under domestic name, so why could they not build one with a Toyota or Nissan symbol stuck to the front. It was a new product line for both manufacturers and they simply underestimated the duties the product was expected to perform and under engineered it as a result. Very cut & dry

 

Yes, I agree- but if you'll look year over year as to when production went from being some import/some domestic, to full domestic prodction, you'll notice that's when they started taking ever increasing hits on reliability.

Not saying that the Japanese have better skills, but I think they did have better quality control- and that was the difference. I say "was" because they have invested in having the majority of their cars and trucks built here now. They have to get those plants up to par. They didn't seem to have a "that'll do" mentality, until recently.

At the end of the day, I wish American Manufacturers well. I've owned 9 - 10 American cars (7 Ford's, 2 GM's), so I've definitely supported them, and will again. It's just good to see them stepping up to the plate, and buidling cars that are in the same league, and in some cases, better than the imports.

Anyone seen that new Pontiac G8 or the upcomng Lincoln MKS?

 

Ok, I see now what your saying and I do agree. Setting up all the facilities and training the new employee's is hard, I am sure thats why some of the details have slipped through the cracks. They had alot of first, new location & new product... I think the world just expected better based on experience

 

I agree 100% !!!

 

You're out of your mind if you think Nissan is even considering dropping the Titan. I work for Nissan North America, so I think I would know if this was the case. And there's no 8k rebate on Tundra's in California, they're selling just fine. Just because Texas people refuse to take the imports seriously and will only buy Chevy/Ford/Dodge, doesn't mean it is that way everywhere else.

That's how people lose, by turning their backs on serious competition thinking they will be no threat but watch, just watch. I am a domestic loving, Ford fan through and through and I will never personally OWN an import truck, but I am just saying. Ugh, nevermind...

 

I read that too, that Ghosn was considering dropping the Titan, but it wasn't due to slow sales, as it was what he perceieved as a shift from thirsty V8's, back to V6 and 4 cylinder cars.

But, that was an internet article, so anyone coudl have written that. I have not seen it in print anywhere- but I do know where Scott got that from.
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Considerign how well the QX56, Armada, and Titan are selling, and how much $$$ Nissan has made off them, I'd think Carlos was on crack if he killed the Titan. But, one can't really argue with the turnaround he's made at Nissan.

If he really did say that, he must know what he's doing...

 

He's just smart. How many people want to pay anywhere from $500 - $700 a month for a truck, and another $300 a month in gas for 5 or 6 years? Im single and make $50k+ a year so I dont care, but if you have kids and a mortgage......that would get old real fast! And yes, union's are killing us. There's a reason car makers go to Canada and Mexico, their workers dont think they need to make $100k a year and the pension of a king to put on door handles. And think about what these companies COULD do. Take GM for instance, they can make a 430hp Corvette that gets 28 mpg's on the hiway. Could they put that engine in a truck and get at least 16-17 in the city? Yes. So why dont they? Could Ford maybe bump up the hp in the 5.4 to say 375hp and have it get decent gas mileage? Yes. Why dont they? Because we keep buying them no matter how crappy the mileage is or how underpowered they are compared to say, a Tundra. We complain about all kinds of things in these forums, but yet we still go out and buy from them dont we. We read on here so many times about how crappy dealers treat people who have warranty work. Toyota was replacing engines with bad camshafts with no questions asked. How many times have people been told that an engine tick is "normal", or some vibration, or rattle whatever, was normal, or were told that they had to pay even though it was clearly a manufacturer defect? I had a Toyota that had a rattle in the dash, they kept it for a week and tried everything under the sun to make a rattle go away, and they did. AND they gave me a free tank of gas because it took them so long! I had a Chevy that had to get repainted because of a flaw in the paint from the factory. When they were done, they shoved the old window seal in with screwdrivers to make it fit, and then it leaked. I didnt even get an apology when I took it back to complain about it. We as consumers cant complain about our auto industry going to hell, we let it happen by tolerating and continuing to buy substandard products. I buy Ford because its an American truck, I just cant see a Toyota farm truck. But Id love to have a 380hp/400lb ft of torque V8 in my F150!

 

call me crazy but wont this "new toyota tundra dually diesel beable to match the stregth of a 250?" i havent looked at the numbers and i do realize its not even in the same weight class as a 250/350 but pound for pound? i will never buy a foriegn truck....im sticking with the big 3!

 

I read an article about the Titan getting the axe, calm down buggy. Second; Tundras are 3k off in your area. When before has Toyota had to discount items so heavily in order to turn units on a first year model run? It hasn't happened....