Nah, that was company level- and due to complaints by soldiers who were faster, having to run with slower people. We had the group runs on Mon & Wed., and the entire company ran together on Fridays.

We had a lot of women too, and their standard were different. A 18-22 year old man would fail a PT test if he was slower than 15;54 in the two-mile run, but a woman of the same age had 18:54 to do it in.


So, mix in men and women aged 18 - 44, and you have a lot of different paces over a 2-mile distance. On the LSD runs, the slowest person usually set the pace,which on average was about an 8 - 9 minute mile. Usually the weakest runners fell out at or before the 2-mile mark.

But, there were some hard-charging women who could out run a lot of men over a 2-mile run. I'm talking a few 12-13 minute chicks... I've been outrun by a few, I'll admit it. Only a few though- maybe, 3 over a 10 year span.

What was most embarrassing, for those who fell out, is when the CO would loop the ENTIRE COMPANY back aropund to pick up someone who fell out of the pace.

Force Marching though, that was my thing... Throw on a 45 - 50 lbs ruck (basic load), and if you weren't a SEAL or Special Forces member, there was a good chance I'd out walk you.

We had to do a 15-mile Force March every quarter in Korea. That'll seperate the men from the boys.

 

Yeah, I got that "Handbook for new Soldiers" when I joined the delayed entry program, and studied that, learning the phonetic alphabet, my general orders, all that sorta stuff.

For the APFT I saw the minimum standards were:

Minimum score: 60:

• 52 push-ups in 2 minutes
• 62 sit-ups in 2 minutes
• 2-mile run in 15:54 for my age group.

Max Score: 100

• 82 push ups in 2 minutes
• 92 sit-ups in 2 minutes
• 2-mile run in 11:54

You needed a minimum score of 180, or 60 in each event to pass. You couldn't get by, by maxing out push-ups and sit ups, and failing the run. You'd restest in 2 weeks or so. Fail three consecutive record PT tests, and you were chaptered out of the Army. (You'd be surpriswed how many grown young men, couldn't do 52 push-ups)

Anyway, I trained that summer, worked out with the football team, and I was in great shape. I tested myself, and cranked out 88 pushups in about 1 minute, and about 75 sit-ups in 1 minute, and I coudl run two miles in about 12m:30s. I knew I was good to go.

Man, I got to basic, and that's where I learned my "push-ups" didn't count as a good push-up on the Army. In the front leaning rest position, your body must form an even plane, shoulders squared, and no sag in your back, and no high-butt.

You must go down low enough so that your body breaks the 90 degree plane formed by your arms in the "down" position, come all the way back up to the arms locked position, and thats "1". So, my first PT test, I did about 140 of "my" push-ups to get credit for 60 - 70 from the Drill sergeant.

They can stop you if your form is jacked up, and you've done less than 10, but after 10- there is no stop, and no restart, you just gotta keep cranking them out. You must rest in the up position, and your hands and toes cannot leave the ground once the exercise begins. You can't "shake it out". Your weight is on your arms the entire time.

it took a while, and soem conditioning before I was getting credit for maxing out push-ups again. I finally got to the point that I was able to do 75 - 80 in one minute, then get up, rather than stay down there for 2 minutes, cranking out extra push-ups that weren't going to improve my score at all.

My first PT test (Push ups, kinda went like this.

Go! 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 16, 17, 18, 18, 18, (go lower) 18, 18, 19, (go lower) 20, 21,... Imagine hearing that crap, while you're being tested...

That's not just basic- that's for your career... Correct, and proper push-ups. Most people don't do them the "military" way. So, I learned to make every push-up count. That's better than losing a bunch of them, and getting psychologically messed with.

 

Nah, just the tall guys from the short ones. Man I hated being short. In the back and all the MF'ers up front couldn't keep up so they'd gap, then run and catch up. Crap got worse the further you got to the back so us short guys don't end up dong a 15 mile march, it's a stupid run with a pack.

And that circle around to get the loser crap sucked too. During MCT, combat training, I picked up an upper respiratory infection. No way was I going to sick call, getting put on light duty and then having to repeat MCT. HECK NO! So I did it all sick as hell. On the last day during the forced march (I got to be in front as I was a squad leader) I barely made it in...but we did the circle around thing. Last thing I remember was the gravel rushing at my face. Few minutes later I wake up and the Corpsman is pouring water all over me. That sucked. 100 yards from finishing the second pickup loop.

 

[QUOTE=Bighersh] a Soldier can join the Marines with no additional training involved.QUOTE]

If you are comming from the army you have to go through marine bootcamp first. I served with a guy in okinawa that was an SGTFC in the army with 12yrs in and went straight to marine bootcamp. He was a Cpl When i worked with him.

 

[QUOTE=marwilli1]When did they start that?

And, what would be the purpose?

 

I'm not sure when it was started. Ive only been in for 3 1/2 yrs and its been that way since ive been in. Maybe jamz knows?

They also changed the PFT, its not just the 3mile, 20 pull ups, 100 crunches. Its an all day event: body drags, obstacle corse, ammo can carries, i cannot remember it all. But if you fail any event then you supposedly fail the PFT. I havent actually done one yet so i cant give all the details.

 

Yeah, I imagine a lot has changed. I got out 10 years ago.

I heard the Army PT test changed too. It used to be 5 events, then three. I heard it changed again, and got tougher after research showed a man has his greatest muscle density and strength at the age of 31, rather than 18. So, the standards as as tough for a 31 year old, as they are for an 18 year old- or, so I'm told.

I dunno how true it is, but- that's why my Army pals told me. I left at 28, so I didn't get to find out for myself.

 

Didnt they teach you about disrespecting your Superiors?

Your list is all jacked up! I can help you.
1. The Marines are a branch of the Navy...Look at a paycheck...says Department of the Navy yes?
2. Navy Subs & Seals do intel for everyone.
3. Navy Seals clear the beach for marines to pound ground.
4. Navy ships soften the enemy with shore bombardment/cruise missles so marines can pound ground.
5. Naval Aviation clears the skies so marines can pound ground.
6. Navy loans marines aircraft so other marines can pound ground.
7. Marine ground pounders, pound ground for Navy superiors.

 

Haha, I hate it when I break my knee.

 

Do you know why the Marines NEVER fail to take a beach head?


Because we'll do anything to not have to get back on the boat.

 

Nothing like a little rivalry to bring out all the opinions.

Every service branch has their place, and every branch performs their job very well. As for any assumptions that "grunts" aren't smart enough to do anything else, I don't agree. I knew a lot of guys in grunt units that had high enough ASVABs to get into any open field. Some of them rolled the dice and got stuck with the grunts, some chose being a grunt. From my experience at various units in the Corps, I admire grunts a lot more than most. They get the job done regardless of what the job is, and they take more crap than most fields in doing it.

Grunts in the Corps often use the term "POG", and from what I've seen it fits. People Other than Grunts. Take a grunt and give him another job and it will get done. Take many of the "tech" fields and ask them to do a grunts job, and you'll watch half of them fail horribly.

There is a famous quote about only two kinds of people really understanding Marines, that being Marines and their enemies. Having spent 8 years in the Corps I can honestly say that it's probably true of the grunts too. The only people that really understand them are grunts and people lucky enough to serve with them long enough to start to understand what they do. Spend some time in a grunt unit, and you'll get a chance to see what real men are made of.

I was in a communications field myself, but was lucky enough to see how they work and what they do. Looking back at history I don't recall a bunch of communicators, aircraft repairmen, crypto techs or intel analysts being the ones at the front of the fight. When it's time to get the job done against often overwhelming odds, it's time to call on the grunts. It's a title I'd be proud to hold, and I have nothing but respect for the guys that do it.



Most of the famous quotes you hear about Marines are about the grunts, and usually come from other service branches. I'll give one that came from another Marine, and I think it reflects on the mindset of the grunts:



"Casualties many; Percentage of dead not known; Combat efficiency; we are winning."

Colonel David Shoup, USMC, Tarawa

 

Exactly...

In the Army, they didn't call those of us who were not infantry POGS, they called us REMF's. I'll tell you the first two letters stood for Rear Echelon, you guys can probably figure out what the last two letters stood for. I wasn't infantry either, I was telecom as well- but I spent 4 years suporting infantry in close quarters. I supported 3rd Infantry Brigade from 3rd Infantry Division back when they were in Germany. We deployed with them, trained with them, and maneuvered with them. So, if Russia had ever come throgh the Fulda Gap, we'd have been right there with them, shoulder to shoulder till the last man or woman. In Korea, I was in 2nd Infantry Division supporting 6/36th Field Artillery. Same as above. We went everywhere they went.

So, we were REMF's in the sense that we weren't on the line, but- we were definitely "linebackers".

At the end of the day though, as I said above- our job was to support the guy on the front line (Infantry). That's where the rubber meets the road, in both the Army and the Marines. Without ground pounders, you can't really "win" a war.

 

Without the sea lanes (supply lines) open and controlling the skies you cant win a war either.

Seriously EVERONE has a function, purpose and mission and one part cant function without the other like the fingers of a fist only as strong as the weakest finger. During my career I had Marienes as room mates, shop mates and ship mates. We all frequently joked eachother but when the fight started with outsiders, we always had the other's backs...anyplace in the world.

Not my fault the Navy needed me to mange and maintain airplanes and helicopters more than carry a gun....
Needs of the military always outweigh the needs of the few or the 1.
Navy is still the marines daddy thou

 

You get no argument from me...

The Navy brought our tanks and trucks over to us for Desert Storm, what the Navy didn't bring- the Air Force did. Let's not forget the close air support the Air Force provides the Army, and that Naval Aviation provides Marines (and Army too, in a pinch). Naval bombardment softens up a beach head. Air Force bombardment softens up, well- anything (now-a-days).

I still say you need that (infantry) guy on the ground just a little bit more than you need everybody else though... Just a little. If you're not standing on the land, you don't own it... Without control of the sky over the land, you won't stay on the land long.

Like you said (and I said too), we (Military services) poke fun at each other, but when the time comes- we got each other's back.

 

Modern warfare is just so different....more political...more about civilian kills to control the adversary....Innocent bystanders die on both sides in larger numbers than combatants. No more fight army to army.
The control of land dosent matter as a tactical objective.
Urban warfare sucks right now.