I know Im gonna catch flak for this one but, wasn't Hitler was considered a "minor" threat, and just a nuisance to everyone at first?

Personally, if I had been the one who found saddam in that hole I would have just tossed in a frag and been done with it. He was taken alive for political reasons, the whole fair trial and all that.

I do know soldiers who were in Iraq, and the media doesnt show what really goes on there. Sure the deaths, talk of civil war, people being killed at checkpoints, and terrorists crying cause they arent comfortable or being treated as they feel they should be makes great news for liberals to raise hell about back home. How often do they show the soldiers handing out food to children? Or the meetings with village elders? The building of schools, water systems, and that locals are working right alongside the soldiers? I dont remember ever seeing those pictures on the 6 o'clock news. But it happens alot. And things will be better without saddam.

The media seems to love playing up how bad things are right now. Give it time, nothing great happens over night. It takes time and struggle. How long did it take for the Revolution to end, and it took years afterwards for the Colonies to agree to a constitution. The United States went through a very bloody civil war, and the country became unified again, and the major world power. Didnt happen overnight either, there was resentment on both sides long after the war ended.

Here in Canada we had our own rebellions and we didnt turn out so bad in the end (except for years of liberals in power)

What Im saying is it is going to take time for things to improve in Iraq. Everything has to be built from nothing.

I think its just too bad that Patton, Marshall, and MacArthur arent around to do what they did in Europe and Japan.

 

Hersh I almost completely agree with you...

 

Amen to that.

Let's recap the things that our LIBERAL MEDIA conveniently downplays:
Sadaam had MANY MANY chances to allow international inspectors to inspect facilities to prove he did not have WMD. On NUMEROUS occasions he did not allow access to entire facilities, or special rooms. WHY? Only one answer. He had something to hide!

Sadaam DID kills THOUSANDS of documented shiites in his country. This is a fact. We ALSO know that he had TERRIBLE torture chambers and would kill ANY who even spoke badly of his regime in the most terrible ways. He was the most awful dictactor the people of Iraq had ever seen. How many specials on TV do you see about the victims of those torture chambers? Funny, not many.

Iraq had the WORLD'S THIRD LARGEST ARMY!! That's nothing to balk at. Although we absolutely destroyed it, what about the neighbors of Iraq? What if he pulled another "Kuwait" move and took a nation hostage and ended up killing more innocent people in the neighboring countries?

You can not start at point A and a potentional evil mass murder and go straight to point Z. There is a progression. It was clear that Sadaam had the desire, AND potentional to turn into a "Hitler."

If the USA had just done nothing and then let Sadaam grow in power and the number of innocent people had risen before we had acted, allowing a Hollocost-esque (sp?) repeat then what would the liberals have to say then? I'm 100% positive the same bitching would have taken place about us being responsible for the innocent victims.

It's awfully easy for the libs to sit here in hindsight and claim it was a big mistake going into Iraq. Supposedly the WMDs didn't exist (As if he couldn't have exported or destroyed them in the time he had. Please.), and now we have a terrible civil war going on. Could anyone have predicted this 100% before going in?

Of course not. That's why people like Kerry even voted on the war. The Americans knew it was the right thing to do at the time, and now, being as that we have the most fickle population in the world we are pussing out. We want our instant results McDonald's style, or we don't want it at all.

How long was WWII? How many soldiers died? How long did that last?

You can't expect a war, a modern one at that to be done within a couple weeks and have a handful of casualties. This "war" with terrorism (And yes, that IS what is taking place in Iraq NOW) is going to last likely for hundreds of years. Islam extremists aren't going away, and they will not stop hating America NO MATTER WHAT WE DO.

 

We all have our opinions, and no one is "more right" than anyone else... We get our news from the same sources- the only thing we hear differently is from the people we know who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Truth is, media is known to show you the bad side, because that is what sells. It's all about ratings. No one wants to hear how good things are, they want to hear how bad things are- so, that's what the news provides. The bad... They may throw in a feel good story every now & then, but, generally, it's all bad, and in some cases (Geraldo) sensationalized- even though "credible" media, is supposed to be "unbiased" not "editorialized"...

Yep, it took 100+ years for this country to recover from the Civil war, and for people to even start being treated like they were told they've be treated in 1865. If you rewind back to 1776, That's nearly 200 years, and in some ways, we still don't have it fully together.

I mentioned this time period to a former employee of mine, as he was in a heated exchange against another employee of mine, who just happened to be Iraqi. he thought this problem could be quickly fixed if the Iraqi's just got on board... I remeinded him that.

1.) They (Iraq's citizens) didn't ask us to come there.
2.) It took decades for us to get our sh*t straight after the Civil War.
3.) They have asked us to leave.

No one (in their right mind) believes this is something that's going to be fixed easily or quickly. The only reason Germany rolled over in 1945 and didn't enter a period of insurgency, is because most of it's military was dead or captured. Iraq's military blended into the crowd. It's hard to spot your enemy when they all look alike. No helmets, no uniforms...

I believe the potential Hitler analogy was more accurate in 1990 than it was in 2003. In 2003, Saddam's military was a shell of its former self. They were not nearly the threat they were in 1990, and aside from Kuwaitt, the only other country in that region they may have posed a threat to militarily, was Saudi Arabia. But, Saudi is our friend, so Saddam would have been a damn-fool to mess with Kuwaitt or Saudi.

They may have had a large "largely untrained" "Army", but when you talk about "Army" where Iraq is concerned, that is their entire military. So yes, their "Army" was large, but their "Military force" was not the 3rd largest in the world...

Not when you have: China, USA, North Korea, South Korea and what's left of Russia, with millions in their "military" not to mention the reserves.

In 1991, the US Army was 780,000 strong (Army Alone). The Air Force had another 700,000, the Navy 770,000 and the Marines 215,000. For a total of over 2.4 million military members. This is not counting the other million(s) in the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Reserve, and National Guard. We're a lot smaller now, but even knowinh how stacked the deck seemed in Saddam's favor in 1990, there were only about 500,000 US service members in the Gulf, against 1,250,000 Iraqi's...

We all know how that panned out... Very lop-sided. I think the easy estimate was 180,000 Iraqi soldiers dead in 41 days. it was probably more than that, but so many were buried alive, we'll never have an accurate count.

I'm not upset we got Saddam; I've said before- we should've gotten him in 1991 when I was over there. All I'm saying is, in hind sight (which is our only viable perspective now), we were all bull-sh*tted into believing what we were told...

So far, it has panned out to be untrue...

But, the day they find the stock pile of chemical and nuclear weapons, I'll be just as happy as you guys.

 

We should handle war, like war should be handled! Not this (oh shoot at me first, so i can shoot back.) You didn't see that in WWII, we went in with a purpose. We leveled everthing first, then went in took care of Hitler, Same with Iraq? We should start with one town, Then tell the rest of the country give us the thugs or your next. After WWII politics took over, look what happen in Korea, we should had went in NK took out there army! , Then the next war, politics got even worse didn't go into N.V. and didn't take care of that either. So in desert storm all gloves off, (What was it 29 or 30 days can't remember), right then and there, we should have let Stormin Norman Occupy Iraq. Then the world would have seen the new military with a purpose, all they got was a short dance. We should had made a point to the world right then!!!!!!
This is my opinion. We americans better keep our POLITICIANS in check or we will be a third world power sorry to say!
Staff Sargeant Howell (U.S.ARMY/ ACTIVE DUTY)

 

If there was no money to be made, or if the Politician’s and Defense Contractor’s sons and daughters were over in Iraq getting their arms and legs blown off, there would have been no war.

Look at it this way. The Tobacco companies knew long before they were forced to admit that their products caused lung cancer and large scale death. Why did they conceal it? BECAUSE THEY, LIKE WAR PROFETTERS, WILL TRADE LIVES TO ENRICH THEMSELVES!


The war is not in IRAQ its here as the USA is being taken over by illegal aliens.
But go ahead and throw another hundred billion or two into IRAQ so you can talk about how tuff we are. Then next Iran, Pakistan, Syria, Indonesia on and on until the USA is a broke third world S%^#HOLE.

Then as you’re sitting around in the slums, eating oatmeal with worms in it , you can shoot your mouth off about how we kicked everyone’s @$$

At the rate we’re going the USA will not be a superpower much longer and one day, when it is not, our enemies will come for us. And when they do, by all means, tell them how we once kicked their @$$. Or go over to the Middle East right now and start broadcasting your tough man bull. Yeah I thought not.

This should rile them up Hersh.

 

IMO--Iraq was a quagmire from the start. The textbook catch-22. We had to act, but we knew we would never be able to leave. So, I guess you could say (and you did) that we were both right AND wrong.

 

Before this post I was 99% sure that there was a rogue 5 year old terrorist using your account, and now this sealed the deal. You make so little sense, and blab about so much conspiracy random crap it is the only way.

 

Good post.

 

Fifteen, twenty years ago, we might have been getting our information from the same source. With the advent of the world wide web, I don't think that is the case any longer.

There is a lot of information that we have access to. Now, it a matter of who is willing to put a little effort into gathering information from different sources to come to a broader conclusion.

I would venture a guess that a majority of the people seeking "news" do so from the easy to absorb mass media. It's just so much simpler to do it that way. You can easily form an opinion with a condenced version of current events. It will create a narrow opinion, but an opinion non the less.

I think that if we were to look at the history of this country we would see that the conflicts that are happening today aren't all that unusual. In fact, I think that we would see that we've come a long way in the past one hundred years. There is still a divide though.

I am of the opinion that the liberal mindset is counterproductive for our country. I believe that although what is happening in Iraq isn't going as well as we would like to see it, it is the right thing for our country to do now, so it doesn't have to do it later. I agree that "W" looks like a monkey and that it was funny to see him choke on a potato chip but I also believe that he is the right man for the job right now. The alternatives are, to say the least, unappealing. I believe that the United States Millitary is the best in the world. It's taken me a while to realize it, but I have had the chance to see these people in action and I am damn proud of the work that they are doing, and have done in the past. I would like to be proud of the people of this country but there appear to be too many that are much too soft. I don't even have to talk about Iraq to give examples. I can talk about the crime problems right here where I live and the laws that tie the hands of law enforcement. I can talk about the people, right here where I live, that exploit peoples "compassion" (looks more like guilt to me) and take advantage of the tax payers.

I hear the complaints, often. I never hear any ideas. I think that Iraq will turn out fine, if the job can be completed. I'm more concerned with what's going to happen right here, in the cities and towns, of our own country. It looks like it might take even longer for us to, collectively, come to our senses.

 

It was interesting to read, though, that the very man who handed Betty Ford the flag from her husband's casket was recently described as "imperious" by Gerald Ford himself. Chaney certanily has changed---and, while Gerald Ford was certainly not privy to all of the info and intel, it was doubly interesting to hear himself say that he woldn't have gone to war with Iraq.

With that interview of the late former President released, I wonder what was going through W's mind as he stood in front of Ford's casket...

I try to get my news from the BBC, the CBC, and other alternative sources...

I am of the opinion that the liberal mindset is counterproductive for our country. I feel that the ultra-conservatives are equally to blame---that it is the moderates on both sides of the aisle that are forging the right path for our country. Balance, I feel is the key.

Tim C.

 

I don't know what GW was thinking; but, I thought it was pretty chicken***** to have it held until after he passed. If you have something to say about someone, spit it out where they can hear it; or, keep it to your cowardly self. You don't drop a bomb like that from beyond the grave. And you don't give that kind of ammunition to a guy like Bob Woodward if you're any kind of decent Republican either. A lot of nice things have been said about Ford since his passing. Most of which I agree with whole heartedly. He should have been re-elected in the stead of Jimmy Carter. Of course, we may not have been graced with Reagan had that happened. I wonder how much of it would have been said if he hadn't taken that last shot at the Bush administration. He's been the butt of a lot of jokes from Liberals since the campaign trail for his failed re-election attempt. Funny how things change.

I listen to them as well; but, I keep in mind that these are news organizations based in countries with much more socialist leanings than ours has. They hardly add balance to CNN or PBS.



I hear the word compromise a lot lately, in a light of being the ultimate goal of civilized people. I don't think it is. There are things that should be discussed and middle ground found for. There are other things, like morals and principle, that should not be compromised. For instance, if one group thinks it should be OKay to have sex with 6 year old girls and another thinks that 18 is a fair age for carnal knowlege, should there be a compromise of say 12 years old? No, of course not. If one side is wrong or their views are so different from yours that you have to abandon your principles to meet them half way to achieve compromise, then compromise is not a good thing. Sometimes balance is so far out of whack, that meeting in the "perceived" middle ground still leaves things out of balance.

 

I think people need to think PRE-BUSH

This clip is from a news paper article published on May 19th of 1999.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq600.htm



Exactly how long are our troops suppose to fly around and get shot at?

Why do we have to let Saddam remain in power, while we protect shiites and kurds from him? This dude is an **** pipe.

As far as Im concerned, Saddam called out the United States military.

13 years later..... He got it.


For all of those that think that the U.S. is an evil country....

In May of 1999 when that previous article was published, The United States Military was busy bombing Belgrade in Europe to try and stop the Serbs "Ethnic Cleansing" campaign.


That would be the third time in a century that we had to save Europe from itself, and thats not counting the Cold War.

Most of Europe thinks we are evil????????? I dont get it.

 

It's called shame and embarrassment. And a good deal of frustration with their own situation. Not all Europeans hate us though. There's still hope for them.

 

Having just visited with some people from across the pond, they are pretty fond of us---it is the guy that lives on Pennsylvania Ave. that they can't stand...

Tim C.