DONT get up. *VIDEO*
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Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,336
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From: Your moms house
Originally Posted by PSS-Mag
Part of it too; could be that they are trained to have a presence.
If there was some geeky guy in a uniform, shoulders leaned forward, hunching over looking at the ground when he talked to you. Would you worry about his opinion of what you do? NO, you could flip him in the forhead and he'd run off crying, then you could do what ever you wanted to.
Jamz, you probably have the same presence as the law enforcent does becasue of your training. (I have it becasue I'm a conceided SOB.) You are use to people cowering in your presence, yet law enforcemnt has been trained to not be intimadeted, as you have too. So when you meet it's like a clash of the titans. Becasue you both have been trained that it is a challenge to you.
If there was some geeky guy in a uniform, shoulders leaned forward, hunching over looking at the ground when he talked to you. Would you worry about his opinion of what you do? NO, you could flip him in the forhead and he'd run off crying, then you could do what ever you wanted to.
Jamz, you probably have the same presence as the law enforcent does becasue of your training. (I have it becasue I'm a conceided SOB.) You are use to people cowering in your presence, yet law enforcemnt has been trained to not be intimadeted, as you have too. So when you meet it's like a clash of the titans. Becasue you both have been trained that it is a challenge to you.
I never thought of it that way.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 234
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From: East Coast
I second the post from expy03. Cops usually hang around each other as friends becuase we don't talk shop to each other. Also we develop close bonds together as we depend on each other every day for our lives. It's not that we want to be non-sociable, it's that we don't care that you got a ticket you didn't deserve, etc! Personally, I don't look at myself as being better than anyone, I just make sure I am one step better prepared than anyone. We live by a force continuum....
Certified Goat Breeder
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 6,182
Likes: 19
From: the moral high ground
How about some helpful advice from the officers here?
What does one do/don't do, say/don'tsay, to avoid getting shot?
Maybe it was the other deputy saying 'Get up'.
I believe the suspect is saying, "OK, I'm getting up."
If one receives conflicting instructions what is the best advice?
I can understand keeping ones mouth shut except to answer direct questions as it confuses the situation, other than that should one just say, "What do you want me to do?" and repeat each command? Is moving in extra slow motion any good?
If the arresting officer seems agitated and is swearing, should one just freeze until he can collect himself?
Apparently, the suspect was an Air Force Policeman just back from Iraq.
Where did he make his mistake leading to gunfire?
What does one do/don't do, say/don'tsay, to avoid getting shot?
Maybe it was the other deputy saying 'Get up'.
I believe the suspect is saying, "OK, I'm getting up."
If one receives conflicting instructions what is the best advice?
I can understand keeping ones mouth shut except to answer direct questions as it confuses the situation, other than that should one just say, "What do you want me to do?" and repeat each command? Is moving in extra slow motion any good?
If the arresting officer seems agitated and is swearing, should one just freeze until he can collect himself?
Apparently, the suspect was an Air Force Policeman just back from Iraq.
Where did he make his mistake leading to gunfire?
Certified Goat Breeder
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 6,182
Likes: 19
From: the moral high ground
Originally Posted by PSS-Mag
How about....
Don't do anything to get chased down!
That's my game plan.
Don't do anything to get chased down!
That's my game plan.
The person shot was the passenger.
His wife said, "This would never have happened if he had been driving, he drives like a turtle."
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Kalamazoo, MI
The whole situation is very *****ty for the guy who got shot.
I have lots of respect for officers, and I've had a few run ins. I've met a bad officer once too, that I won't get into the whole story, but he was a complete *** and gave no respect to me. I know their jobs are very stressful and can't imagine some of the stuff they go through. I am really curious to hear this officers side to the story as to why he shot the suspect. It's mind boggling to me from the video. Hopefully justice will be served where needed.
I have lots of respect for officers, and I've had a few run ins. I've met a bad officer once too, that I won't get into the whole story, but he was a complete *** and gave no respect to me. I know their jobs are very stressful and can't imagine some of the stuff they go through. I am really curious to hear this officers side to the story as to why he shot the suspect. It's mind boggling to me from the video. Hopefully justice will be served where needed.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,448
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From: Texas in the heart
How about some helpful advice from the officers here?
What does one do/don't do, say/don'tsay, to avoid getting shot?
Maybe it was the other deputy saying 'Get up'.
I believe the suspect is saying, "OK, I'm getting up."
If the suspect said "I'm getting up, big mistake". He should have stayed down.
If one receives conflicting instructions what is the best advice?
Don't move. Keep your hands visible.
I can understand keeping ones mouth shut except to answer direct questions as it confuses the situation, other than that should one just say, "What do you want me to do?" and repeat each command? Is moving in extra slow motion any good?
Don't move. Keep your hands visible.
If the arresting officer seems agitated and is swearing, should one just freeze until he can collect himself?
Don't move. Keep your hands visible.
Apparently, the suspect was an Air Force Policeman just back from Iraq.
Where did he make his mistake leading to gunfire?
Don't talk. He was trying to reason with the Officer that had just had a high speed pursuit. The best thing for him at that time was to not move, and don't say anything. An Airforce Policeman should never have let it get to a pursuit. He knows better. He should understand the danger he put allot of people in during that pursuit. He should have convinced the driver to pull over.
I know it sounds simple and the answers are short, but the bottom line is don't do anything unless told to. And never reach into your pockets for anything unless the Officer tells you to. If I have a concern for my safety I will do a pat down and check for weapons. Nothing personal, just a thing we do. If you are a CCW carrier, no problem. Just tell me where the weapon is. If I know it's there, it doesn't bother me. I may ask you to let me hold it during the traffic stop, but you will get it back.
Do not reach in the glove box without informing the Officer. I have taken several guns out of a glove box after I arrested the bad guy.
Keep your registration and insurance papers in a place that you have easy access to. I hate when I have to wait for someone to find the paperwork.
The driver side visor is a good place. Or in the case of my supercrew, I keep it in the overhead.
The most important thing to remember is your response to the Officer at the start of the contact will probably set the tone for the rest of the stop. If you have done something that warrants an arrest. Don't fight. You'll just get in allot of pain. Either by spray or zap. Either way, it hurts.
It's nothing personal. Most people don't understand that 2 hours after the contact, I probably won't remember your name. I may have had a pursuit, arrested a drunk, picked someone up on a warrant, assisted with an alarm call, or any number of situations that arise during the rest of my shift. I will be very honest with you guys on this one. If you are a real Adam Henry during our time together, I will never forget your name, or your vehicle.
99.9% of all of my contacts with good citizens have been favorable. Sure I have had complaints. But it was always someone trying to get out of a ticket, or just trying to get me in trouble because I stopped them. The violator made it personal, not me.
Sorry for the long post, it's difficult to discuss this without taking up some space. I'm sure the rest of the guys have their own experiences as well.
What does one do/don't do, say/don'tsay, to avoid getting shot?
Maybe it was the other deputy saying 'Get up'.
I believe the suspect is saying, "OK, I'm getting up."
If the suspect said "I'm getting up, big mistake". He should have stayed down.
If one receives conflicting instructions what is the best advice?
Don't move. Keep your hands visible.
I can understand keeping ones mouth shut except to answer direct questions as it confuses the situation, other than that should one just say, "What do you want me to do?" and repeat each command? Is moving in extra slow motion any good?
Don't move. Keep your hands visible.
If the arresting officer seems agitated and is swearing, should one just freeze until he can collect himself?
Don't move. Keep your hands visible.
Apparently, the suspect was an Air Force Policeman just back from Iraq.
Where did he make his mistake leading to gunfire?
Don't talk. He was trying to reason with the Officer that had just had a high speed pursuit. The best thing for him at that time was to not move, and don't say anything. An Airforce Policeman should never have let it get to a pursuit. He knows better. He should understand the danger he put allot of people in during that pursuit. He should have convinced the driver to pull over.
I know it sounds simple and the answers are short, but the bottom line is don't do anything unless told to. And never reach into your pockets for anything unless the Officer tells you to. If I have a concern for my safety I will do a pat down and check for weapons. Nothing personal, just a thing we do. If you are a CCW carrier, no problem. Just tell me where the weapon is. If I know it's there, it doesn't bother me. I may ask you to let me hold it during the traffic stop, but you will get it back.
Do not reach in the glove box without informing the Officer. I have taken several guns out of a glove box after I arrested the bad guy.
Keep your registration and insurance papers in a place that you have easy access to. I hate when I have to wait for someone to find the paperwork.
The driver side visor is a good place. Or in the case of my supercrew, I keep it in the overhead.
The most important thing to remember is your response to the Officer at the start of the contact will probably set the tone for the rest of the stop. If you have done something that warrants an arrest. Don't fight. You'll just get in allot of pain. Either by spray or zap. Either way, it hurts.
It's nothing personal. Most people don't understand that 2 hours after the contact, I probably won't remember your name. I may have had a pursuit, arrested a drunk, picked someone up on a warrant, assisted with an alarm call, or any number of situations that arise during the rest of my shift. I will be very honest with you guys on this one. If you are a real Adam Henry during our time together, I will never forget your name, or your vehicle.
99.9% of all of my contacts with good citizens have been favorable. Sure I have had complaints. But it was always someone trying to get out of a ticket, or just trying to get me in trouble because I stopped them. The violator made it personal, not me.
Sorry for the long post, it's difficult to discuss this without taking up some space. I'm sure the rest of the guys have their own experiences as well.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
From: Southern Oregon
I'm sorry, but to me, the events before or after the video do not warrant what happened in the video, plain and simple. Look, I have the utmost respect for law enforcement and what they do, even though all of my personal experiences with them have been complete B.S., especially being tailgated by a cop for a mile and half in my Mustang doing exactly THE speed limit to 1mph under and eventually pulled over for what she said was "speeding" and called me a liar repeatedly threatening to arrest me for reckless driving (at 35mph). Yeah well, she was the liar, because upon taking the ticket to court, she said she had an senior officer with her at the time of my ticket, and the senior officer denied being with her. That's just one of my run-ins with L.E., needless to say I've never been beat or shot by one 
The problem I have is that the deputy was so quick about firing, whether he heard the other cop say "go ahead and get up" or not, the guy who got shot said "I'm getting up" and the cop shot him. I know it's hard to disconnect the adrenaline from the high-speed pursuit previously, but that in no way justifies an overly quick reaction from the cop of multiple shots into the suspect on the ground getting up. If he felt that threatened by the guys presence and thought he was going to cause trouble he either should have not been RIGHT NEXT to him where he had no time to think and just shoot, or they should have the guy handcuffed. Police are trained to be cool, and use their weapon as a last resort...this is so not the case here. Why not have a taser or pepper spray aimed at him instead of the gun, especially considering neither of the occupants were armed.
I know it's a tough job, but it's what you're trained to do. Mistakes happen, unfortunately people get hurt, and in the end, the deputy who did the shooting made the situation what it was by putting himself so close to "harms way" that his only reaction to a misunderstood situation was to fire on an unarmed person. I'm sorry, but I feel no remorse for the cop in this situation. He's been on the force for 10 years this SFgate article says, and he should have not put himself or the victim in that situation like that -- unfortunately I have to say I think the deputy is fully at fault, no matter what happened before the video clip everyone saw. It's a sad story for the deputy too, because now he gets to live with his mistake and possibly get kicked off the force. However, for us citizens, it's called attempted murder in the same circumstance.
The problem I have is that the deputy was so quick about firing, whether he heard the other cop say "go ahead and get up" or not, the guy who got shot said "I'm getting up" and the cop shot him. I know it's hard to disconnect the adrenaline from the high-speed pursuit previously, but that in no way justifies an overly quick reaction from the cop of multiple shots into the suspect on the ground getting up. If he felt that threatened by the guys presence and thought he was going to cause trouble he either should have not been RIGHT NEXT to him where he had no time to think and just shoot, or they should have the guy handcuffed. Police are trained to be cool, and use their weapon as a last resort...this is so not the case here. Why not have a taser or pepper spray aimed at him instead of the gun, especially considering neither of the occupants were armed.
I know it's a tough job, but it's what you're trained to do. Mistakes happen, unfortunately people get hurt, and in the end, the deputy who did the shooting made the situation what it was by putting himself so close to "harms way" that his only reaction to a misunderstood situation was to fire on an unarmed person. I'm sorry, but I feel no remorse for the cop in this situation. He's been on the force for 10 years this SFgate article says, and he should have not put himself or the victim in that situation like that -- unfortunately I have to say I think the deputy is fully at fault, no matter what happened before the video clip everyone saw. It's a sad story for the deputy too, because now he gets to live with his mistake and possibly get kicked off the force. However, for us citizens, it's called attempted murder in the same circumstance.
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 891
Likes: 1
From: Lost some where in the middle of the Ozark Mountains!
My idea...
Answer with yes sir, no sir only. Do not speak. Everyone knows that they have the right to remain silent. Make sure that you have the ability as well.
If I'm getting conflicting orders I will remain froze flat on my face, palms down, spread eagle. Wait for them to gain thier heads to follow procedure and restrain me. Then if they want me up they will pick me up. I'd rather face charges of insubordination or failure to comply later, than face an excited armed man now.
Answer with yes sir, no sir only. Do not speak. Everyone knows that they have the right to remain silent. Make sure that you have the ability as well.
If I'm getting conflicting orders I will remain froze flat on my face, palms down, spread eagle. Wait for them to gain thier heads to follow procedure and restrain me. Then if they want me up they will pick me up. I'd rather face charges of insubordination or failure to comply later, than face an excited armed man now.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 0
From: NH
I have had incidents with law enforcement. I know that may be extremely hard to believe but it has happen.
I always answer yes sir, no sir, or mam, unless she looks dyke…
Serious I am polite and ALWAYS ask permission before I do anything. Both my hands are on the wheel so they can easily see them as they walk up, with or without guns drawn.
When they ask for my driver’s license I inform them it is in my back pocket and ask for permission to retrieve it. When they ask for registration I inform them it’s in the glove box and ask permission to retrieve it.
It is really simple but so many people have a complex about the FACT that an officer IS in control and they DO control you regardless if you like it or not. You do still retain all your Constitutional rights and civil rights but when a law enforcement officer pulls you over YOU BELONG TO HIM/HER period. They are your daddy and you had best get that through your head.
Just because you have Constitutional and civil rights does NOT mean you get to exercise them as you wish when you’re with your daddy the police officer. What those rights do for you is to preserve your “future” freedom and insure if you did NOT get treated in accordance with your Constitutional and civil rights that you have recourse.
Exercise you First Amendment rights if you wish but it may not stop you from getting your jaw busted. However, if you’re lucky and have a ton of cash you may have the opportunity to get some cash back at a later date, no guarantee though…
Just realize when you find yourself under the control of a law enforcement officer THEY control you and many of your freedoms may be temporarily suspended until a future date when a judge decides to either restore them to you or not…
I always answer yes sir, no sir, or mam, unless she looks dyke…
Serious I am polite and ALWAYS ask permission before I do anything. Both my hands are on the wheel so they can easily see them as they walk up, with or without guns drawn.
When they ask for my driver’s license I inform them it is in my back pocket and ask for permission to retrieve it. When they ask for registration I inform them it’s in the glove box and ask permission to retrieve it.
It is really simple but so many people have a complex about the FACT that an officer IS in control and they DO control you regardless if you like it or not. You do still retain all your Constitutional rights and civil rights but when a law enforcement officer pulls you over YOU BELONG TO HIM/HER period. They are your daddy and you had best get that through your head.
Just because you have Constitutional and civil rights does NOT mean you get to exercise them as you wish when you’re with your daddy the police officer. What those rights do for you is to preserve your “future” freedom and insure if you did NOT get treated in accordance with your Constitutional and civil rights that you have recourse.
Exercise you First Amendment rights if you wish but it may not stop you from getting your jaw busted. However, if you’re lucky and have a ton of cash you may have the opportunity to get some cash back at a later date, no guarantee though…
Just realize when you find yourself under the control of a law enforcement officer THEY control you and many of your freedoms may be temporarily suspended until a future date when a judge decides to either restore them to you or not…